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Larry Schneider
United States
Cos Cob
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I'm not concerned about additional rules. We can easily handle that.

At first blush, many reviews I've seen and read have said that if you had to buy one, buy the new one since it's "everything from the base game" plus more.

But when I looked closer, it seemed that wasn't necessarily true. For example:

Survivor Cards: Base Game=30, Long Night=20
Crossroads Cards: Base Game=80, Long Night=61
Dual Sided Objective Cards: Base Game=10, Long Night=8.
Exiled Secret Objective Cards: Base Game=10, Long Night=5.

Is this something that a new buyer should take into account or are these differences in components negligible in the end? (I thought that Crossroads Cards were one of the highlights of the game so getting 25% fewer cards doesn't seem negligible to me.)

Also, I should add that I have no intentions of buying both games, certainly not right now, maybe never.

 
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Jack Fleming
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I play tested it and before I bought my copy I would have said buy the original over this one as I value the larger Survivor, Crossroads, and Objectives over the new mechanisms. However, once I opened a box there were some key quality improvements that make me lean more towards recommending The Long Night over OG Dead of Winter.

The BIGGEST difference, which I'm surprised I haven't seen mentioned in any review I've seen, is that the location cards are no longer card stock, they are now made of nice solid chipboard. I've always hated how flimsy the original locations were as it took away from how the table looked and they didn't always stay put. Having nice chunky locations with some weight to them is a huge improvement for me. The location board also now has, what looks like, a glossy coat to it which is nice and they've increased the variety of the art for the zombies. They also added a graveyard board where you can put your dead Survivors, which is a nice touch.

While I'm not a huge fan of Raxxon or the Bandits, but I do really like some of the smaller mechanisms like Explosive Traps and Unruly survivors. That being said, I really think the component quality improvements alone make TLG the better purchase.
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D L
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Fredonia
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The component upgrades and subtle additions have been talked about here already, and I would agree with those. For my part, I like all of the new modules as well. I was skeptical of them at first as I heard about them as this game went through development and info started being released, but they hooked me.

The upsides to the original game for me are the fact that there ARE more characters, more crossroads cards, objectives and so on. One thing I REALLY love about the original is that each objective has a written scenario intro. I really miss those in the new one. The expansion has a neat little campaign in the back of the book to introduce the new modules, and it is highly story driven and really got my interest. I would LOVE to see that type of thing developed more.

As to which you should get, that is a really hard question. I would lean ever slightly to TLN because if you use the crossroads app, you could still get at least the crossroads cards from the base. Honestly though, either way you go you will be in for a treat and a game that gives you a lot of stories and good times.
 
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Larry Schneider
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Cos Cob
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Decayed Beauty wrote:
As to which you should get, that is a really hard question. I would lean ever slightly to TLN because if you use the crossroads app, you could still get at least the crossroads cards from the base. Honestly though, either way you go you will be in for a treat and a game that gives you a lot of stories and good times.

Admittedly, I don't know the game very well, but wouldn't the original crossroads cards be of little value without having the original survivors in the game? I thought each card said something like, "If so-and-so is in the game, then..."

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Matt Wilkens
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I would recommend TLN. One of the biggest problems with the base game for me, was that there was a very obvious way to play most of the survivors you had. The Principal should go to the school, the Nurse should go to the hospital, etc. TLN survivors are much more multi-purpose.

This is not to say you should avoid the original. If you like TLN, supplement with the original and get (more than) double the content.

schnel wrote:
Admittedly, I don't know the game very well, but wouldn't the original crossroads cards be of little value without having the original survivors in the game? I thought each card said something like, "If so-and-so is in the game, then..."

Yes, this will be an issue. However, not EVERY card pertains to a specific character. Some refer to generic conditions, like "If the player has a survivor at the colony."

There have been a few threads about how to best combine the two games. The more complicated suggestion is to trim down the crossroads deck after initial survivors are selected so you are less likely to get survivor Crossroads that aren't in the game. The easier suggestion is to just draw another Crossroads card if you draw one for a character not currently in play.
 
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Eric Matthews
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moosemcd wrote:
I play tested it and before I bought my copy I would have said buy the original over this one as I value the larger Survivor, Crossroads, and Objectives over the new mechanisms. However, once I opened a box there were some key quality improvements that make me lean more towards recommending The Long Night over OG Dead of Winter.

The BIGGEST difference, which I'm surprised I haven't seen mentioned in any review I've seen, is that the location cards are no longer card stock, they are now made of nice solid chipboard. I've always hated how flimsy the original locations were as it took away from how the table looked and they didn't always stay put. Having nice chunky locations with some weight to them is a huge improvement for me. The location board also now has, what looks like, a glossy coat to it which is nice and they've increased the variety of the art for the zombies. They also added a graveyard board where you can put your dead Survivors, which is a nice touch.

While I'm not a huge fan of Raxxon or the Bandits, but I do really like some of the smaller mechanisms like Explosive Traps and Unruly survivors. That being said, I really think the component quality improvements alone make TLG the better purchase.


Component quality (flimsy boards) is a major reason I didn't buy the original after a play through at a con when it first came out. Now I'm glad I waited. More diverse characters and settings. I got the long night only and likely will only pick up the original if the game actually gets so much play that we play enough to actually need more. I'm skeptical that will happen though, or if it does something else I'm the way of expansions will be coming out.

 
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Jack Fleming
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schnel wrote:
Decayed Beauty wrote:
As to which you should get, that is a really hard question. I would lean ever slightly to TLN because if you use the crossroads app, you could still get at least the crossroads cards from the base. Honestly though, either way you go you will be in for a treat and a game that gives you a lot of stories and good times.

Admittedly, I don't know the game very well, but wouldn't the original crossroads cards be of little value without having the original survivors in the game? I thought each card said something like, "If so-and-so is in the game, then..."



Only about 30 (~1 for each survivor) of the crossroad cards are specific to a survivor. The rest trigger based on a variety of other factors.
 
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Jerome Nowak

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Ganybyte wrote:
moosemcd wrote:
I play tested it and before I bought my copy I would have said buy the original over this one as I value the larger Survivor, Crossroads, and Objectives over the new mechanisms. However, once I opened a box there were some key quality improvements that make me lean more towards recommending The Long Night over OG Dead of Winter.

The BIGGEST difference, which I'm surprised I haven't seen mentioned in any review I've seen, is that the location cards are no longer card stock, they are now made of nice solid chipboard. I've always hated how flimsy the original locations were as it took away from how the table looked and they didn't always stay put. Having nice chunky locations with some weight to them is a huge improvement for me. The location board also now has, what looks like, a glossy coat to it which is nice and they've increased the variety of the art for the zombies. They also added a graveyard board where you can put your dead Survivors, which is a nice touch.

While I'm not a huge fan of Raxxon or the Bandits, but I do really like some of the smaller mechanisms like Explosive Traps and Unruly survivors. That being said, I really think the component quality improvements alone make TLG the better purchase.


Component quality (flimsy boards) is a major reason I didn't buy the original after a play through at a con when it first came out. Now I'm glad I waited. More diverse characters and settings. I got the long night only and likely will only pick up the original if the game actually gets so much play that we play enough to actually need more. I'm skeptical that will happen though, or if it does something else I'm the way of expansions will be coming out.



Yup, Im going with TLN. The original can be bought if this one gets (over)used.
 
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Ryan M
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Regina
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I've touched on this in another thread, but honestly, I think the people who say if you have to buy 1, buy the new one are not thinking properly and are being very short-sighted. Not to be rude or put anyone down, but the people who recommend "buy the new one" are people who have both (like myself) and therefore aren't thinking clearly about the TRUE value of one over the other.

Yes, the new game is the base plus MORE things. But while it has more new "things" (ie. bandits, super zombies, colony upgrades), it actually has LESS of what will really matter for anyone who plays this a lot. It has noticeably less crossroad cards, less characters and I feel WAY less main objectives.

When DoW first came out, within a month people were already complaining that there needs to be more crossroad cards because you kept seeing the same cards trigger over and over, or games where only 1 triggers. And of course they couldn't wait for more main objectives and characters to be added. People naturally want more content that adds variety and choice to their game. TLN certainly adds that....if you have the base kit already. If you ONLY buy TLN you are actually going to find there is less of what people complained about and wanted with DoW.

So as a huge DoW fan and pre-orderer of both sets, I would only recommend buying TLN first IF you think your group will love it and you will likely buy DoW anyway, OR if you don't think you will play it that much. If you think this game is for you and/or your group and it will be played a fair bit, I think it would be a mistake to get TLN first and have it be the only version you get. There just isn't enough foundational content there and I think you will quickly get bored and disappointed.

I think people who have the base and are recommending this as "if you get only one" aren't thinking clearly. I don't think they aren't looking at TLN as a truly stand alone, 1 off game. They are approaching it as fan and owner of the original. And yes, if you own the original, TLN definitely is awesome and adds a ton of stuff. But these people aren't playing with only half the cross road cards, less characters and arguably half the main objectives. SO their review is slanted, I feel. They are playing a game with potentially 50+ characters, 130 crossroad cards, 15 (arguably) main objectives and tons of other things as well. This isn't the same experience a "new" person who ONLY has TLN will get. They will get a great game with some cool things in it, but if people tired of the lack of certain things before, owning only TLN will actually make those issues bigger and more apparent.

tl;dr...a gaming group who has never played Dead of Winter should only buy TLN if they think they will buy DoW in the future anyway. If this could possibly be the only version of the game they end up buying, they should buy the original DoW as it has more variety and replayability in the components that really matter.

That's my two cents. It may not make any difference, as I think people who buy TLN first will love it, because it is great. But what makes it truly great for myself, and I suspect most of those reviewers, is not so much how much is "has" as how much it "adds" over and above the original game. It seems like a nitpick, but I feel there is a pretty major difference in those two concepts.
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Ryan M
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Regina
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schnel wrote:

Survivor Cards: Base Game=30, Long Night=20
Crossroads Cards: Base Game=80, Long Night=61
Dual Sided Objective Cards: Base Game=10, Long Night=8.
Exiled Secret Objective Cards: Base Game=10, Long Night=5.


In relation to my post above, I want to clarify something I think is important.

The Long Night has 61 crossroad cards compared to the 80 of the base game BUT I think only about 40 of those are "basic" crossroad cards. The other 21 are module specific. So unless you are playing every game with all modules, you aren't going to be using all 61 crossroads. Plus, I've only taken a quick scan of the triggers in TLN and I would argue they are more specific and often more complex than DoW. So I am assuming they trigger less often. After my first game of TLN, where only 1 crossroad triggered (and it was a character specific card which actually trigger very rarely In my experience) I went through the base game and pulled all the crossroads that trigger when at colony, moving or searching to pad out TLN's deck.

3 of those objective cards in TLN are multi-part objectives. One side is to introduce Raxxon and the other introduces the bandits. So technically there is only 7 different main objectives. However, I honestly can't see anyone playing these intro objectives more than once (if at all) because the modules are so cool and interesting and fun, you want those in your game right away. The intro objectives are designed to help you learn those modules and ease you into the rules...not necessarily to give the actual full experience of having those things in the game. They are a fun story-driven scenario for people brand new to the game, but I suspect people won't really play them after that first time. So for me, there is really only 5 main objectives being added.
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Ryan M
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stevekerr25 wrote:
I would recommend TLN. One of the biggest problems with the base game for me, was that there was a very obvious way to play most of the survivors you had. The Principal should go to the school, the Nurse should go to the hospital, etc. TLN survivors are much more multi-purpose.



I actually disagree with this somewhat. I actually find the characters in TLN to be much more specific or specialized in most of their special abilities. Yes, if you have one of the "search" characters, it makes sense to get them to that location and start pulling items. Sure. But what happens if you don't need those items for one reason or another?

I think the same can be said for the new group. True, most of them have an ability that is not location dependant, but I'd still say they are pretty specific in their use. The girl who places traps has an awesome "general" ability, but needs a 6 to use it. What happens if you never roll a 6? What if you roll a 6 but really don't need the trap? I've only played 2 games so far, but in the second game where she was picked, her ability was never used for the reasons above.

There is a character who can almost guarantee getting a gun...but you need to spend food tokens. What are the chances this will be used? Same with the nutritionist who also discards food tokens. There is a character who can either kill a zombie for free (yay) or wound a survivor at their location (huh?). These seem like pretty niche abilities.

Further, the sniper guy is awesome for his sniping ability but his search sucks meaning if you pick him it will pretty much only be because of his ability. Same with the public speaker who is useless for searching and will mostly be used in hopes his moral ability triggers when needed. Or the father who only is good if there is helpless survivors and you park him at the colony all game. I can see these three characters pretty much just camping at a single location all game.

As such, I'm not sure these new characters are any more "multi-purpose" than the base group. Characters with some of the best or most interesting special abilities are balanced by making those abilities tough or unlikely to trigger. Like the base group, their ability and usefulness will depend on your objectives and who you pick early on (or who you "find" later).
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Clyde W
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Washington
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You can always spend a camel to reroll any die or two camels to +1/-1 any die result, right?
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