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Jaipur» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some questions that need clarification about exchanging and selling. rss

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Nadine Grech
Malta
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1.

"An exchange always involves at least 2 cards for 2 cards."

"When you take cards from the market, you either take goods or camels, but never both."

If there happened to be four camel cards and one gold card in the market and I wish to exchange but because of the second rule, does that mean I am unable to exchange because of those four camel cards?

2.

"When making an exchange the same goods type cannot be both surrendered and taken at the market."

This one confused me a bit. Does it mean that I can't exchange per e.g. the leather card in my hand for the leather card that is in the market? Or that I can't surrender two of the same goods type in my hand (per e.g. two leather cards in my hand)?

3.

"Sometimes there are fewer tokens available than cards during a sale. In that case, you still receive the bonus token for the number of cards sold."

What happens if there no more certain bonus tokens left? Does it mean I no longer receive them?

4.

"When selling the 3 most expensive goods (diamonds, gold and silver), the sale must include a minimum of 2 cards."

Does this mean the rest of the goods types (cloth, spice, leather), you can sell one card? If yes, do you think it's worth it selling one card?

I would really appreciate your help in this. Thank you.
 
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Billy McBoatface
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It's been a while since I played this, so I'll leave questions #1, #3, and #4 for other people (I'm pretty sure I know the answers but don't want to get it wrong), but I'm quite sure on #2:

2. You cannot exchange one leather card for another. You can surrender two (or more) leather cards, but the cards you take cannot include any leather if you do this.
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Tony C
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Not an expert, I just enjoy the game, so take with a camel's worth of salt.

nadigames93 wrote:
1.

"An exchange always involves at least 2 cards for 2 cards."

"When you take cards from the market, you either take goods or camels, but never both."

If there happened to be four camel cards and one gold card in the market and I wish to exchange but because of the second rule, does that mean I am unable to exchange because of those four camel cards?.


Yep. You can take the one Gold card for free (no exchange necessary, refill that slot from the main deck), or all the camels.

nadigames93 wrote:
2.

"When making an exchange the same goods type cannot be both surrendered and taken at the market."

This one confused me a bit. Does it mean that I can't exchange per e.g. the leather card in my hand for the leather card that is in the market? Or that I can't surrender two of the same goods type in my hand (per e.g. two leather cards in my hand)?


Whatever you exchange from your hand, you can't take that same good from the market. You can trade two leather from your hand for two gold from the market. You can't trade two leather from your hand for one gold and one leather from the market.


nadigames93 wrote:
3.

"Sometimes there are fewer tokens available than cards during a sale. In that case, you still receive the bonus token for the number of cards sold."

What happens if there no more certain bonus tokens left? Does it mean I no longer receive them?)


Correct - if you sell 5 goods, and there are Zero 5-sale bonus tokens remaining, you get no bonus token. If you sell 5 goods, and there are only 3 tokens for that good but there is still a 5-good bonus, you get the 3 tokens for that good and a 5-good bonus token.
You still receive as many goods-specific tokens as you sell, up to the available number; and you can still earn the bonus token for selling that many goods (even if you didn't get "paid" for that many goods.)


nadigames93 wrote:
4.

"When selling the 3 most expensive goods (diamonds, gold and silver), the sale must include a minimum of 2 cards."

Does this mean the rest of the goods types (cloth, spice, leather), you can sell one card? If yes, do you think it's worth it selling one card?

I would really appreciate your help in this. Thank you.


Yes you can sell one card of the cheaper goods. Sometimes it is worth it, if it's close to the end of the round and you are either ahead and want to end it so you take the last leather token. Or it's close to the end and you're just scrambling for any points before the market closes (three payment stacks gone or the market can't be refilled - I think that's the end-round condition.)

Have fun! This is a good little two player game that's actually a game but still allows for lots of non-game interaction.
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Christopher Corrigan
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1. You would not be able to exchange.

2. You can not preform the former ("I can't exchange per e.g. the leather card in my hand for the leather card that is in the market")

3. No you can not get any of the token if they have all already been claimed ... nor an IOU, a chit but perhaps a wink and nod.

4. You can sell singles of the non-precious goods. You may want to for instance, take the first leather as it by far the most valuable.

Have fun it is a fun and elegant we game.
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Randy Alton
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nadigames93 wrote:
1.

"An exchange always involves at least 2 cards for 2 cards."

"When you take cards from the market, you either take goods or camels, but never both."

If there happened to be four camel cards and one gold card in the market and I wish to exchange but because of the second rule, does that mean I am unable to exchange because of those four camel cards?

2.

"When making an exchange the same goods type cannot be both surrendered and taken at the market."

This one confused me a bit. Does it mean that I can't exchange per e.g. the leather card in my hand for the leather card that is in the market? Or that I can't surrender two of the same goods type in my hand (per e.g. two leather cards in my hand)?

3.

"Sometimes there are fewer tokens available than cards during a sale. In that case, you still receive the bonus token for the number of cards sold."

What happens if there no more certain bonus tokens left? Does it mean I no longer receive them?

4.

"When selling the 3 most expensive goods (diamonds, gold and silver), the sale must include a minimum of 2 cards."

Does this mean the rest of the goods types (cloth, spice, leather), you can sell one card? If yes, do you think it's worth it selling one card?

I would really appreciate your help in this. Thank you.


1. With 4 camels and 1 non-camel good in the market, exchange cannot happen. You can take the 1 good which is replaced from the deck or take all 4 camels.

2. All goods given in exchange must be different from the ones received.

3. correct

4. Yes one card is allowed for the cloth, spice and leather goods. You might want to do this to hasten the end of the round. Or you might see doing that as the best alternative; maybe you are at 7 cards and hope to see a good come up that will yield a better set; maybe it's a better alternative to taking all the camels and letting your opponent see several new goods.

Hope this helps.
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Peter S.
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Sacramento
California
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1. Correct. You can take the gold card, but you can't exchange for the gold card.

2. The first one. In an exchange, the type of good you surrender must be different than the type of good you take.

3. I'm not sure without reading the rules; I'm at work. As far as I recall, you continue to take bonus tokens until they're depleted, but once depleted that's it. Having said that, the quoted language makes it sound like I may be incorrect.

4. Yes, you can sell a singleton of the other goods. It's rarely wise, but it can have strategic value in some circumstances.
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Nadine Grech
Malta
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Wow I didn't expect so many replies, thank you! Regarding the first one, I forgot to mention that I always happened to have seven cards in my hand but because of those four camel card, I wasn't entirely sure but I could see that I probably couldn't exchange. It can be so unlucky because sometimes the card happens to be the one I've been waiting for! This isn't the first time that's happened either! That's one heck of a great tactic though, selling one card just to end the game and prevent your opponent from selling more! At first I honestly thought it was going to be one of those overrated board games but after playing it for a while, I could see why a lot of people love it and how charming and clever it is.
 
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Andrew White
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nadigames93 wrote:
1.

"An exchange always involves at least 2 cards for 2 cards."

"When you take cards from the market, you either take goods or camels, but never both."

If there happened to be four camel cards and one gold card in the market and I wish to exchange but because of the second rule, does that mean I am unable to exchange because of those four camel cards?


Just one thing to note in this exact situation. If your hand is full (you have 7 cards in your hand) you cannot take the the gold because your hand would go over 7, and you cannot exchange because there is only one card (and you need to exchange for 2). Your only options are to sell or take camels.
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Molokov (AU)
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andywhite wrote:
nadigames93 wrote:
1.

"An exchange always involves at least 2 cards for 2 cards."

"When you take cards from the market, you either take goods or camels, but never both."

If there happened to be four camel cards and one gold card in the market and I wish to exchange but because of the second rule, does that mean I am unable to exchange because of those four camel cards?


Just one thing to note in this exact situation. If your hand is full (you have 7 cards in your hand) you cannot take the the gold because your hand would go over 7, and you cannot exchange because there is only one card (and you need to exchange for 2). Your only options are to sell or take camels.


I don't believe this is the case, from my reading of the rules. You only have to be limited to 7 cards at the end of your turn, so you can take the gold, refill from the deck, and then discard one card from your hand (to get down to 7). The discarded card is not considered as sold, so you don't get any tokens for it.
 
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Chris Spath
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Molokov wrote:
I don't believe this is the case, from my reading of the rules. You only have to be limited to 7 cards at the end of your turn, so you can take the gold, refill from the deck, and then discard one card from your hand (to get down to 7). The discarded card is not considered as sold, so you don't get any tokens for it.


This is not my interpretation. I can't see anything in the rules that refers to discarding down to 7 cards. It does say that you must not have more than 7 cards (not including camels) in your hand at the end of your turn, but I interpret this to mean you are not allowed to take an action that would otherwise leave you with more than 7; rather by specifying that the limit applies at the end of your turn, the rules are avoiding confusion about temporarily holding more than 7 cards while mid-way through a market trade.
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Rainer Fuchs
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Massachusetts
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Agreed. I don't think there's any provision for discarding in this game. In fact, managing your card count (and leveraging your knowledge of the opponent's card count) is a key element of the game.
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Andy Burgess
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I agree with Andrew, Chris and Rainer, and I have another reason to give.

If I see you collecting cards of a certain type, I might hold on to one or more of those cards in my hand. If I'm then allowed to discard down to seven cards at the end of my turn, I can put one or more of those cards forever beyond your reach. Another key element of the game is gambling on whether to return the cards that I know you want to the market, in the hope that you won't be able or want to pick them up yet. Or even better, getting the timing just right so that I know you won't be able to pick them up yet.
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Mark L
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Spatho wrote:
Molokov wrote:
I don't believe this is the case, from my reading of the rules. You only have to be limited to 7 cards at the end of your turn, so you can take the gold, refill from the deck, and then discard one card from your hand (to get down to 7). The discarded card is not considered as sold, so you don't get any tokens for it.


This is not my interpretation. I can't see anything in the rules that refers to discarding down to 7 cards. It does say that you must not have more than 7 cards (not including camels) in your hand at the end of your turn, but I interpret this to mean you are not allowed to take an action that would otherwise leave you with more than 7; rather by specifying that the limit applies at the end of your turn, the rules are avoiding confusion about temporarily holding more than 7 cards while mid-way through a market trade.

That's correct. I originally had the same interpretation as Molokov (I think the rules could make it a lot clearer) but the designer has clarified it here and here. (Point A in the latter post.)
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Chris Spath
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Nice to have it confirmed, thanks!
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Molokov (AU)
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Thanks! Good to know I was wrong so I can correct this in future plays
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Nadine Grech
Malta
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nadigames93 wrote:
1.

"An exchange always involves at least 2 cards for 2 cards."

"When you take cards from the market, you either take goods or camels, but never both."

If there happened to be four camel cards and one gold card in the market and I wish to exchange but because of the second rule, does that mean I am unable to exchange because of those four camel cards?

2.

"When making an exchange the same goods type cannot be both surrendered and taken at the market."

This one confused me a bit. Does it mean that I can't exchange per e.g. the leather card in my hand for the leather card that is in the market? Or that I can't surrender two of the same goods type in my hand (per e.g. two leather cards in my hand)?

3.

"Sometimes there are fewer tokens available than cards during a sale. In that case, you still receive the bonus token for the number of cards sold."

What happens if there no more certain bonus tokens left? Does it mean I no longer receive them?

4.

"When selling the 3 most expensive goods (diamonds, gold and silver), the sale must include a minimum of 2 cards."

Does this mean the rest of the goods types (cloth, spice, leather), you can sell one card? If yes, do you think it's worth it selling one card?

I would really appreciate your help in this. Thank you.


First of all, I wanted to thank you for your help last time, I appreciated it. Since then, I've played it quite a lot and I love it! Although, now I have a few more questions that are probably trivial but I would be very grateful for your answers:

5. "If you decide to take the camels, you must always take all the camels at the market."

If there is only one camel in the market, is it okay to take it? (Although it's probably not worth it.)

6. "A round ends immediately if: There are no cards left in the draw pile when trying to fill the market"

If there are no more cards in the draw pile but the market is still filled and it's my turn, do I still have a chance to play one more time by selling? Or exchanging?
 
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Andy Burgess
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You can take "all" the camels if there's only one, yes. One is all in this situation. For rules lawyers, you can't take "all" the camels if there are no camels as a way to skip your turn.

The game doesn't end when the draw pile is empty, it ends when you need to take at least one card but can't because it's empty. So in your case, yes, you play on. If both players are selling, this might happen for more than one turn.
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