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BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Johnson on the issues rss

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Mac Mcleod
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Note: Edited post to include second column of detail based on feedback it was misleading without the second column.

Original summary color coded post is down below.

Okay, so I'm not sure Johnson is really being looked at as closely as if he were Clinton or Trump so howza about it?

If yer a democrat- try to imagine if Johnson were running as a republican.
If yer a republican- try to imagine if Johnson were running as a democrat.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm



VoteMatch Question & Answer Gary Johnson Positions

Format
Summary Favor/Disfavor Topic #X and Summary of Topic
(net sum of sub positions in parenthesis)
Sub position : (Favor/Disfavor this Sub Position)



Favors topic 1: Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right

(+2 points on Social scale)
No federal funding for stem cell research: Opposes topic 1
Women's right to choose until fetal viability: Favors topic 1
Right to choose up until viability of the fetus: Favors topic 1
Leave the decision up to the woman: Strongly Favors topic 1

Favors topic 2: Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-3 points on Economic scale)
Support principles embodied in the Equal Rights Amendment: Favors topic 2

Strongly Favors topic 3: Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)
Refused 'Marriage Vow' pledge; it condemns gays & singles: Strongly Favors topic 3
I support gay unions; government out of marriage business: Strongly Favors topic 3
I support gay unions; government out of marriage business: Opposes topic 3
Overturn CA Prop. 8: Let gays marry: Strongly Favors topic 3

Favors topic 4: Keep God in the public sphere
(-3 points on Social scale)
Vouchers OK for church childcare & church schools: Strongly Favors topic 4
Supports separation of religion and state: Opposes topic 4

Strongly Opposes topic 5: Expand ObamaCare
(+5 points on Economic scale)
ObamaCare's promise of lower cost simply isn't happening: Strongly Opposes topic 5
Government-managed healthcare is insanity: Strongly Opposes topic 5
Government-managed healthcare is insanity: Strongly Opposes topic 5
ObamaCare is unconstitutional; so is Bush's Medicare Rx plan: Strongly Opposes topic 5
Salud!: managed care for Medicaid recipients: Opposes topic 5
Repeal ObamaCare & failed Medicare prescription drug benefit: Strongly Opposes topic 5
More federal funding for rural health services: Favors topic 5
Protect state tobacco settlement funds from federal seizure: Neutral on topic 5

Favors topic 6: Privatize Social Security

(+2 points on Economic scale)
A portion of Social Security ought to be privatized: Strongly Favors topic 6
Open to personal accounts for Social Security: Strongly Favors topic 6
Change escalator from wage-based to inflation-based: Opposes topic 6
Maintain federal Social Services Block Grant funding: Favors topic 6
Maintain long-term solvency of Social Security and Medicare: Opposes topic 6

Strongly Favors topic 7: Vouchers for school choice
(+5 points on Economic scale)
$3,500 voucher for every K-12 student: Strongly Favors topic 7
Vouchers are as constitutional as pre-school and day-care: Strongly Favors topic 7
Vouchers are as constitutional as pre-school and day-care: Strongly Favors topic 7
Competition would make our schools better: Strongly Favors topic 7
Abolish Departments of Education and HUD: Strongly Favors topic 7
Give every student in New Mexico vouchers worth $3,500: Strongly Favors topic 7
Put educational funds in the hands of the people who use it: Strongly Favors topic 7
End the Department of Education: Favors topic 7

Favors topic 8: EPA regulations are too restrictive

(-3 points on Social scale)
Oversaw construction of 500 miles of new highway: Favors topic 8
More state autonomy on brownfields & Superfund cleanups: Favors topic 8
Focus on prevention and states for Endangered Species: Strongly Opposes topic 8
State primacy over water quantity & quality issues: Favors topic 8

Opposes topic 9: Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)
Too many unnecessary laws leads to too many in prison: Strongly Opposes topic 9
Vetoed early release of prisoners due to overcrowding: Favors topic 9
DNA evidence shows many people are mistakenly convicted: Strongly Opposes topic 9
1994: Proponent of death penalty, but willing to debate it: Favors topic 9
Death penalty as a public policy is flawed: Strongly Opposes topic 9
Don't risk putting innocent to death: Strongly Opposes topic 9
Half of crime is drug-related; legalizing drugs cuts crime: Opposes topic 9
Supports flexible federal block grants for crime programs: Neutral on topic 9
Zero tolerance for violence against government employees: Neutral on topic 9

Strongly Favors topic 10: Absolute right to gun ownership
(+5 points on Economic scale) Laws regarding guns are ineffective: Strongly Favors topic 10

Strongly Opposes topic 11: Higher taxes on the wealthy
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Eliminate double taxation embodied in business income taxes: Strongly Opposes topic 11
Current tax code penalizes productivity & investment: Opposes topic 11
23% national sales tax while eliminating the IRS: Strongly Opposes topic 11
Replace job-killing tax code with FairTax: Strongly Opposes topic 11
Reduce state personal income tax from 8.5% to 8%: Strongly Opposes topic 11
Eliminate corporate income tax as real way to create jobs: Strongly Opposes topic 11
Lower the tax burden; eliminate corporate tax: Strongly Opposes topic 11
No national sales tax or VAT: Neutral on topic 11
Federal tax incentives for energy, with state decisions: Neutral on topic 11

Strongly Favors topic 12: Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+5 points on Social scale)
Bigger border fence will only produce taller ladders: Strongly Favors topic 12
Arizona anti-immigrant law leads to racial profiling: Strongly Favors topic 12
A 10-foot wall just requires an 11-foot ladder: Favors topic 12
2 year grace period for illegals to get work visas: Favors topic 12
1 strike & you're out for legal immigrants who violate terms: Favors topic 12
Let some, but not all, illegal immigrants stay in US: Favors topic 12
We educate the world's best & brightest; why send them back?: Strongly Favors topic 12
Open the border; flood of Mexicans would become taxpayers: Strongly Favors topic 12
Mexican immigrants are pursuing same dreams we all have: Strongly Favors topic 12
Share costs of legal immigration between states & federal: Neutral on topic 12
Federal government should deal with criminal repatriation: Neutral on topic 12

Strongly Favors topic 13: Support & expand free trade
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Flights to Cuba ok; trade promotes friendship: Strongly Favors topic 13
No tariffs, no restrictions; but no corporatism: Favors topic 13
Eliminate needless barriers to free trade: Strongly Favors topic 13
NAFTA benefits New Mexico; jobs lost are those we don't want: Strongly Favors topic 13

Favors topic 14: Support American Exceptionalism

(+2 points on Economic scale)
Overturn simplistic, chaotic, reactive military policies: Strongly Opposes topic 14
No foreign aid spending unless it protects U.S. interests: Strongly Favors topic 14
Act in US self-interest, but wary of unintended consequences: Strongly Favors topic 14

Strongly Opposes topic 15: Expand the military
(+5 points on Social scale)
Should we have 100,000 troops on the ground in Europe?: Strongly Opposes topic 15
Allies want more US military spending, but cut by 43%: Strongly Opposes topic 15
43% reduction in military spending; cut foreign aid too: Strongly Opposes topic 15
Balance budget by cutting entitlements AND Defense: Strongly Opposes topic 15

Opposes topic 16: Make voter registration easier

(-3 points on Social scale)
Strong advocate of term limits for governors & Congress: Favors topic 16
New SuperPAC, "Our America PAC", for principled candidates: Strongly Opposes topic 16
Won 1994 with $510K of own money & not beholden: Strongly Favors topic 16
Full disclosure, but no limits on campaign donations: Strongly Opposes topic 16

Strongly Favors topic 17: Avoid foreign entanglements
(+5 points on Social scale)
We are no safer after years of failed nation-building abroad: Strongly Favors topic 17
Afghan nation-building will fail; withdraw immediately: Strongly Favors topic 17
No military threat from Iraq, Afghanistan, nor Libya: Strongly Favors topic 17
Iran is not currently a military threat: Strongly Favors topic 17
We wiped out al Qaeda 10 years ago; leave Afghanistan: Strongly Favors topic 17
Afghan War initially warranted, but not for 10 years: Strongly Favors topic 17
I opposed the Iraq War from the beginning: Strongly Favors topic 17
No Afghan timetable; start tomorrow & finish in a few months: Favors topic 17
Eliminate ineffective interventions in Iraq & Afghanistan: Strongly Opposes topic 17
Include states in anti-terrorism planning: Neutral on topic 17

Opposes topic 18: Prioritize green energy
(+2 points on Economic scale)
Cap-&-trade imposes costs with no environmental improvement: Opposes topic 18
No cap-and-trade; no taxing carbon emissions: Strongly Opposes topic 18
Voluntary partnerships reduce greenhouse gases economically: Neutral on topic 18
Kyoto Treaty must include reductions by all countries: Opposes topic 18
Create block grants for Agricultural Stewardship: Neutral on topic 18
Collaborative, incentive driven, locally-based solutions: Neutral on topic 18

Strongly Opposes topic 19: Marijuana is a gateway drug
(+5 points on Social scale)
States are finally seeing the failure of the War on Drugs: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Why do we tell adults what they can put in their bodies?: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Marijuana is safer than alcohol: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Marijuana is safer than alcohol: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Harm-reduction: health issue rather than criminal issue: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Drug policy today parallels Prohibition in the 1920's: Strongly Opposes topic 19
War on Drugs is a miserable failure; $6M for treatment: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Drug use is up despite $30B spending on War on Drugs: Strongly Opposes topic 19
More federal funding for all aspects of Drug War: Favors topic 19
States should make drug policy, not feds: Neutral on topic 19

Strongly Opposes topic 20: Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(+5 points on Economic scale)
National debt, approaching $20 trillion, is bankrupting us: Opposes topic 20
National debt of $20 trillion is obscene & unsustainable: Strongly Opposes topic 20
Cut federal budget by 43% to bring it into balance: Opposes topic 20
Replace job-killing tax code with FairTax: Strongly Opposes topic 20
Our debt is greatest threat to our national security: Opposes topic 20
Eliminate corporate income tax as real way to create jobs: Strongly Opposes topic 20
On verge of financial collapse unless we balance budget: Opposes topic 20
Lower the tax burden; eliminate corporate tax: Strongly Opposes topic 20
Balance budget by cutting entitlements AND Defense: Opposes topic 20





I've color coded his positions with regard to my positions.
Red- I disagree strongly.
Green- I agree strongly.
Neutral Black - I disagree to agree mildly.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm

VoteMatch Question & Answer

Favors topic 1: Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+2 points on Social scale)
Favors topic 2: Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-3 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Favors topic 3: Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)
Favors topic 4: Keep God in the public sphere
(-3 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 5: Expand ObamaCare
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Favors topic 6: Privatize Social Security
(+2 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 7: Vouchers for school choice
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Favors topic 8: EPA regulations are too restrictive
(-3 points on Social scale)
Opposes topic 9: Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 10: Absolute right to gun ownership
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 11: Higher taxes on the wealthy
(+5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 12: Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+5 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 13: Support & expand free trade
(+5 points on Economic scale)

Favors topic 14: Support American Exceptionalism
(+2 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 15: Expand the military
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 16: Make voter registration easier
(-3 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 17: Avoid foreign entanglements
(+5 points on Social scale)
Opposes topic 18: Prioritize green energy
(+2 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 19: Marijuana is a gateway drug
(+5 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 20: Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(+5 points on Economic scale)


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Moshe Callen
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What does "Keep G-d in the public sphere" mean?
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Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes. He supports the TPP. Altogether, some of his positions disqualify him from being a genuine libertarian.

whac3 wrote:
What does "Keep G-d in the public sphere" mean?


They have a page of clarifications for each question:
http://www.ontheissues.org/VoteMatch/q4_2016.asp
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whac3 wrote:
What does "Keep G-d in the public sphere" mean?


That one struck me too, and it includes a huge variety of things. 'Allow nativity scenes on school grounds' is a touch different than 'tax funds to rigious organizations.'
 
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Kiraboshi wrote:
Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes.


All the libertarians needed to do was nominate a libertarian this year and they somehow fuck that up as well. He's no Ron Paul, but he is still better then the alternatives.
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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Shadrach wrote:
whac3 wrote:
What does "Keep G-d in the public sphere" mean?


That one struck me too, and it includes a huge variety of things. 'Allow nativity scenes on school grounds' is a touch different than 'tax funds to rigious organizations.'

I dare say that as a religious person of what is in the US a minority religion, it bothers me. Let's face it, if representation of religions is proportional to their adherents, then minority religions will be bombarded with Christianity in the US. So to me, this seems like saying that Christianity should be allowed to dominate the public sphere so long as lip service is given to other religions too.
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Shadrach wrote:
whac3 wrote:
What does "Keep G-d in the public sphere" mean?


That one struck me too, and it includes a huge variety of things. 'Allow nativity scenes on school grounds' is a touch different than 'tax funds to rigious organizations.'

All the other questions are similarly fraught. The one about the EPA says that indicating you want fewer regulations also means you want to disregard property rights by not allowing polluters to be sued. I think, however, that exactly such a liability mechanism should replace the regulations, so there's no answer there I can agree with.
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Guys.. full quotations for each of those questions are available thru the link.

When I get done with breakfast and get on the computer I'll see about digging up the relevant quotes if someone else hasnt.

Basis for religious position question conclusion.

Quote:
Vouchers OK for church childcare & church schoolsI've got news for anybody who criticizes vouchers as being unconstitutional or says that government can't be spending money on religious institutions. In essence, we have a voucher system for child care. For those mothers who are on welfare, we give them what in essence is a voucher which allows them to choose where to send their children to child care, and in many cases that child care is religious. That's a state-funded program. We don't call it a "voucher" but we might as well.

Supports separation of religion and stateQ: Do you support separation of religion and state?

A: Yes.

Q: You oppose gay marriage, though you favor civil unions. Why?

A: I wouldn't say I oppose gay marriage as a matter of public policy. The government shouldn't be in the marriage business. I would not be opposed to belonging to a church that supports gay marriage.

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whac3 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
whac3 wrote:
What does "Keep G-d in the public sphere" mean?


That one struck me too, and it includes a huge variety of things. 'Allow nativity scenes on school grounds' is a touch different than 'tax funds to religious organizations.'

I dare say that as a religious person of what is in the U.S. a minority religion, it bothers me. Let's face it, if representation of religions is proportional to their adherents, then minority religions will be bombarded with Christianity in the U.S. So to me, this seems like saying that Christianity should be allowed to dominate the public sphere so long as lip service is given to other religions too.

You mean after all this time, you're only now catching on to one of Dominionism's primary objectives?

Really, this is old news. Donald Trump spoke at the "Pastors And Pews" event in Orlando, Florida last Thursday sponsored by the American Renewal Project headed by Dominionist David Lane who believes that the protections of the U.S. Constitution and the freedoms afforded by the Bill of Rights were intended only for Christians of his ilk. He also believes that people of other religions should be required to convert to Christianity in order to become a U.S. citizen. (Lane told Bloomberg News that he hoped to engage Trump about how he [Trump] intended to combat "homofascist totalitarianism". In his speech at that event, Trump practically recited the same talking points about revoking the Johnson Amendment that Lane had earlier told Bloomberg News about.)

Like Dominionist pseudo-historian David Barton of Wallbuilders, David Lane believes that America is the new Israel and both espouse what might politely be called Christian Supremacy (but is actually Dominionism in prettier colors).


About David Lane




For most of his career, David Lane, 59, has been a behind-the-scenes conservative religious operative from California who rarely gives interviews and almost never takes press calls, by his own admission. He started organizing pastor meetings/conferences (generally not advertised and closed to news media) in Texas and California in the 1990s, but these gatherings have picked up steam in the last few years, as has Lane’s militaristic and Christian theocratic rhetoric.

Lane also has a long history organizing campaigns for religious right candidates and events. In 1991, he spearheaded a front group of African Americans to support the nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. Six years after that, he helped Jerry Falwell launch the National Committee for the Restoration of the Judeo-Christian Ethic.

Described by the chief political correspondent of the Christian Broadcasting Network as an “influential evangelical Christian who operates below the radar with no desire to be recognized for his efforts,” Lane is also the founder of The American Renewal Project (ARP), which is run under the sponsorship of the American Family Association (AFA), an anti-LGBT hate group.

The ARP is designed specifically to drive evangelical pastors into politics in an attempt to establish a Christian theocracy in America. In a rare 2011 interview held in Iowa following a gathering of the Iowa Renewal Project in West Des Moines, Lane said that the pastor meetings his organization was holding were spiritual, but “the end result is political. From my perspective,” Lane continued, “Our country is going to Hell because pastors won’t lead from the pulpits.”

Lane spends most of his time criss-crossing the country forming local coalitions and acquiring outside financing to hold pastor conferences which, he said in 2011, have largely been paid for by the AFA. He has also been called in as a weapon for the right, helping in special-issue campaigns like the successful 2010 unseating of three Iowa state supreme court justices who upheld gay marriage in that state. Republican leaders and pastors call Lane the mastermind of that campaign. Conservative historian Doug Wead, who is close to the Bush family, said in a 2011 blog post that Lane was the “mysterious behind-the-scenes evangelical kingmaker” responsible for turning the 2008 Iowa presidential straw poll from candidate Mitt Romney to Mike Huckabee. Lane would later refer to “the false god of Mormonism” in a 2011 email (obtained by The Daily Beast) to another conservative colleague.

Lane has played a key role in organizing several high-profile religious right events including Texas governor Rick Perry’s “The Response” prayer rally in August 2011, paid for by the American Family Association. Lane was finance chairman, according to Christianity Today. Lane also had a role in “Rediscover God in America” events, which connected pastors to speakers like Dominionist pseudo-historian David Barton and former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee.

In June 2013, Lane wrote an essay titled “Wage War to Restore Christian America” that was posted at the conspiracist and anti-LGBT site World Net Daily (WND) in which he employed decidedly martial rhetoric, calling on Christians to be “retrained to war for the Soul of America, and quit believing the fabricated whopper of the ‘Separation of Church and State…’” as well as hinted at Christian martyrdom to stop same-sex marriage. “America’s survival is at stake,” he wrote, “and this is not tall talk or exaggeration.” The essay was yanked from the WorldNet Daily website soon after it went up after bloggers called attention to it.

The month before, Lane had organized a closed-door lunch at which Kentucky Republican U.S. Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Texas Republican U.S. Senator Ted Cruz addressed evangelical pastors in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. More recently, Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal appeared alongside former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee to meet with conservative pastors at an August 2014 "Iowa Renewal Project" event. And in October of that year, Reince Priebus, head of the Republican National Committee, stated that people like David Lane and Tony Perkins are “right” to be concerned about what’s happening in the country. Perkins is head of the anti-LGBT hate group Family Research Council.

David Lane has also called out those he sees as “too moderate” in the Republican Party. “The moderate GOP chieftains and lieutenants’ philosophy of government and set of values – in the long run – are incompatible with Christian morality and principles,” he said in a 2012 WorldNet Daily essay, where he also exhorted Christian conservatives to “be friendly and disarm, or annoy and aggravate by laying down the law on Christian principles and Christian values; these are the two options.”

In another 2012 essay published at WorldNet Daily, Lane referenced a war when he asked readers, “Can you picture what America would look like following a decade-long war – a knock-down drag-out – to return God, prayer and the Bible to the public schools? To regain our Christian heritage and re-establish a Christian culture?”

Currently, Lane is engaged in "Pastors And Pews", a project in which he’s trying to recruit 1,000 pastors to run for office. “It’s part of a spiritual battle. If we are going to survive as a nation, we have to have a spiritual resurrection,” Lane told the Washington Times in November 2014. He successfully influenced “several 2014 midterm elections,” the Washington Examiner claimed on January 5, 2015, and Lane wants to see pastors running for any elected local, state, or federal office. “I’m getting an army marching,” he said.


Notable Quotes Made By David Lane

“Government is not going to save America. Wall Street is not going to save America. The Republican party is not going to save America. If America is going to be saved, it will be done by Christian men and women restoring a Judeo-Christian culture to the country.”David Lane quotes in the November 23, 2014 issue of The Washington Times

“Let’s make it crystal clear: Those who embrace homosexual marriage and homosexual Scouting – or homosexuality in general – know little and practice nothing of Christianity.”David Lane in his June 5, 2013 WorldNet Daily column entitled: “Wage War to Restore a Christian Nation

“If God allows, we intend to launch, in the 2013-2014 political cycle, the American Renewal Project, to engage the church in a culture war for religious liberty, to restore America to our Judeo-Christian heritage, and to re-establish a Christian culture.”David Lane in his December 19, 2012 WorldNet Daily column entitled: “The Plan to Put Bible And Prayer Back into Schools

“What we’re doing is the mobilization of pastors and pews to restore America to her Judeo-Christian heritage. That’s our goal.” – David Lane quoted in the January 23, 2008 edition of "American Prospect" magazine


> Excerpt from the December 2015 Reuters News story by entitled:

David Lane Declares: "I'm Halfway To My Goal Of Getting 1,000 Pastors To Run For Public Office"



David Lane, who has admitted he's a political operative, is the founder of the American Renewal Project (ARP), which is run under the sponsorship of the American Family Association (AFA), an anti-LGBT hate group. In 2008, Lane described his project as an effort to “[mobilize] pastors and pews to restore America to her Judeo-Christian heritage.”

Lane claims to have recruited 500 evangelical pastors to run for office in 2016. Some of Lane’s recruits are likely violating IRS rules, too. In some instances, pastors are trumpeting their candidacies or those of other evangelicals directly from the pulpit, in violation of Internal Revenue Service rules governing tax-exempt churches. Some are launching church-wide voter registration drives.

Many churches have been taunting the IRS since the last Presidential election. Since 2012, about 900 preachers from evangelical fundamentalist churches across the United States have made recordings of politically infused sermons and sent them to the IRS. The federal tax agency, which declined to comment, has yet to take any action.

Lane says he is organizing weekly all-expenses-paid conferences in hotels around the country for “far-right pastors and their wives,” which will feature lectures on how to run political campaigns and get out the vote.

"This is war," David Lane told right-wing radio host Janet Mefferd in 2014. The main focus of his efforts, he said, is to "reclaim" America's Judeo-Christian heritage which, he alleged, has been "stolen" by the "false god of Secularism".

David Lane was also involved in the early 2015 attempt by the American Family Association and Lane's American Renewal Project to take every member of the Republican National Committee on an all-expenses paid trip to Israel, which ended up garnering national media attention, resulting in the American Family Association distancing itself from its own spokesman, Bryan Fischer because of his anti-LGBT radio broadcasts, and even bringing condemnation for the trip from fellow conservatives. The trip went on, but Republican National Committee head Reince Preibus dropped out at the last minute.




The funding for Lane’s operation is coming from the billionaire Wilks Brothers, one of whom, Farris, is a pastor at the Assembly of Yahweh 7th Day church, located about halfway between Cisco and Rising Star, Texas. The church is part of the "Sacred Name Movement" (SNM) which developed in the early 20th century out of the Church of God (Seventh Day) movement. Adherents believe that only ancient Hebrew names be used for God and Jesus; any other name is considered blasphemous. Sacred Name Movement followers are also required to obey Old Testament Law, especially the commands regarding the seventh-day Sabbath, Kosher food laws, and Jewish festivals. According to a PDF made available in September by Reuters, doctrinal beliefs of Wilks' church state that homosexuality and "willful abortion" are serious crimes.

The Wilks family made its money in oil and gas -- fracking, specifically -- and Farris and wife Joanne created The Thirteen Foundation in 2011, each putting $50,000,000.00 into it. Since then, they've used the foundation to fund several right-leaning organizations. In 2011 and 2012, for example, the foundation gave $1,000,000.00 to the Liberty Counsel and $500,000.00 to the Family Research Council, both anti-LGBT hate groups. Other funds went to aggressive right-wing groups that are part of the Koch Brothers network. Farris and younger brother Dan, along with their wives, gave $15,000,000.00 in July 2015 to a super PAC for Presidential candidate Ted Cruz, which makes them the largest donors for a candidate in the 2016 race.

Whether or not he can reach his goal of 1,000 pastors, David Lane has money and can already claim a recent victory: Several of his recruits were “instrumental” in the transphobic campaign to repeal Houston’s Equal Rights Ordinance, an effort that included a number of other far-right anti-LGBT groups.


______________________________________________



Now get this: These idiots are the ones that Trump is catering to now because they're only ones willing to embrace his candidacy since it means they have greater advantage to manipulate Donald to advance their own extremist agendas. Last week, Trump attended Lane's "Pews & Pastors" event in Orlando, Florida where Lane said he hoped to engage Trump about how he [Trump] was going to take on "homofascist totalitarianism".

Apparently, Trump did confer with David Lane since Donald practically recited most, if not all, of the Dominionist's talking points about revoking the Johnson Amendment during his speech at that event last Thurdsday. (Lane had previously mentioned those talking points in an interview with Bloomberg News.)


The earliest work I've been able to find about Dominionism is Christian author Hal Lindsey's 1989 book entitled "The Road To Holocaust". Lindsey's concern about Dominionism back then was about one particular disturbing angle to it that still has ominous import for Israel.


> Excerpts from the May 2009 dissertation by Thomas D. Ice of Liberty University entitled:

Hal Lindsey, Dominion Theology, and Anti-Semitism




Hal Lindsey’s book "The Road to Holocaust" was released in June 1989 with his warning of concern as to where recent trends of Dominionism (also known as Christian Reconstructionism) theology could lead the Church.

Hal Lindsey does not say that Christian Reconstructionists are full-blown anti-Semites. He does say that Dominionists and Reconstructionists engage in “the same sort of rhetoric that in the past formed the basis of contempt for the Jews that later developed into outright anti-Semitism.” He then warns Christians:


Hal Lindsey wrote:


Do not sit idly by while a system of prophetic interpretation that historically furnished the philosophical basis for anti-Semitism infects the Church again.


What is the basis upon which Lindsey makes such claims?

His basis is that historically replacement theology (i.e. the Christian Church replaces the Jews as the new or true Israel, and Israel has no future as a distinct nation within God’s plan) has been the theological foundation upon which anti-Semitism has been built within the confines of Christianity.

Therefore, Lindsey has seen in the 1980s a revival of replacement theology (the historic cause of anti-Semitism) spearheaded by Dominionist leadership. His concern is that for the first time in our lifetime, there is a decline of those who believe in the Pretribulation Rapture and a future for national Israel, often known as Dispensationalism, and a
dramatic shift towards replacement theology.

Finally, since Hal Lindsey believes that we are near the time of the Second Coming and therefore the Rapture, he knows that the yet future seven-year Tribulation will see a time of the greatest anti-Semitism in the history of the world. This is why he believes that a warning needs to be issued concerning Dominionist/Reconstructionist’s “prophetic views and the dangers they pose to the Church in general and the Jewish people in particular.”....

While Christian Reconstructionists do believe that individual Jews will be converted to Christ en masse in the future, almost none of them believe that national Israel has a future and thus the Church has completely taken over the promises of national Israel.

In contrast to the eventual faithfulness and empowerment by the Holy Spirit of the Church, Reconstructionist David Chilton said that “ethnic Israel was excommunicated for its apostasy and will never again be God’s Kingdom.” Chilton says again, “the Bible does not tell of any future plan for Israel as a special nation.” Christian Reconstructionists believe that the Church is now that new nation which is why Christ destroyed the Jewish state. Reconstructionists DeMar and Leithart have said, “In destroying Israel, Christ transferred the blessings of the kingdom from Israel to a new people, the
church.”


Christian Reconstructionist Ray Sutton teaches that God permanently divorced Israel. In explaining the parables of Matthew 21 and 22, he says, “For the next several chapters, one section after another pronounces judgment and total discontinuity between God and Israel... total disinheritance.”

The father of Christian Reconstructionism, R. J. Rushdoony, uses some of the harshest language in making clear his form of replacement theology.

R. J. Rushdoony wrote:


The fall of Jerusalem, and the public rejection of physical Israel as the chosen people of God, meant also the deliverance of the true people of God, the church of Christ, the elect, out of the bondage to Israel and Jerusalem,... A further heresy clouds premillennial interpretations of Scripture — their exaltation of racism into a divine principle. Every attempt to bring the Jew back into prophecy as a Jew is to give race and works (for racial descent is a human work) a priority over grace and Christ’s work and is nothing more or less than paganism.... There can be no compromise with this vicious heresy.


These statements are clearly replacement theology and thus theological anti-Semitism, which has historically been the foundation for overt anti-Semitism within Christendom.

Since almost all of the prophecy teachers among the Christian Reconstructionists are Preterist and were in 1987-88 (Gary North, Ken Gentry, Gary DeMar, David Chilton, Greg Bahnsen, Ray Sutton, Mike Gilstrap, James Jordan, and probably George Grant), how can an observer be justly criticized for concluding that Reconstructionists are Preterist
Postmillennialists?

They cannot. There are a few that are not Preterist. One of them is
Steve Schlissel. Steve is of all things a Futurist, just like Hal Lindsey and other Dispensationalists. Yet he is the one who has been defending Reconstructionists against the charge of theological anti-Semitism by stating views consistent with a Futurist viewpoint, but things denied by Preterists.

One cannot be a Preterist and believe that Israel has a national future. Prophecy relating to that issue has already happened and God’s plan for Israel is already completed. Sure they believe in individual conversions of many Jews, but not a national future.

Remember what Christian Reconstructionist spokesman David Chilton has said?

David Chilton wrote:


Ethnic Israel was excommunicated for its apostasy and will never again be God’s Kingdom.... The Great Tribulation took place in the Fall of Israel.... The Bible does not tell of any future plan for Israel as a special nation.... The Harlot” symbolized apostate Jerusalem, which had ceased to be the City of God.... What once had been true of Israel, Peter says, is now and forever true of the Church. Because Israel committed the supreme act of covenant-breaking when she rejected Christ, Israel herself was rejected by God. The awesome curses pronounced by Jesus, Moses, and the prophets were fulfilled in the terrible destruction of Jerusalem, with the desolation of the Temple and the obliteration of the covenant nation in 70 A.D.


Steve Schlissel in the process of supposedly refuting Hal Lindsey’s "The Road To Holocaust" makes some interesting admissions, which I think supports Lindsey’s contention that historically replacement theology has been the ground for theological anti-Semitism within Christendom.

Schlissel notes a departure among his Reformed brethren (Christian Reconstructionists would be included in this group) in more recent times from earlier views of Israel.

As we have said, and will say again, just a century ago all classes of Reformed interpreters held to the certainty of the future conversion of Israel as a nation [into Christians]. How they have come, to a frightening extent, to depart from their historic positions regarding the certainty of Israel future conversion is not our subject here.

Schlissel answers his question in part by saying, “The hope of the future conversion of the Jews [to become Christians] became closely linked, at the turn of the century and beyond, with Premillennial Dispensationalism, an eschatological heresy.”

Amazing logic. Dispensationalists get blamed for the departure of one group from the truth, because they believe the truth. So that must mean that the more we believe the truth, the more it makes people like Christian Reconstructionists depart from the truth.

Schlissel seems to share Lindsey’s basic view on the rise and development of anti-Semitism within the history of the Church. After giving his readers an overview of the history of anti-Semitism through Origen, Augustine, Chrysostom, Ambrose, and Jerome, Schlisse then quotes approvingly Raul Hilberg’s famous quote from Lindsey’s "The Road To Holocaust":

Raul Hilberg wrote:


Viewing the plight of the Jews in Christian lands from the fourth century to the recent Holocaust, one Jew observed, “First we were told [by Christians] ‘You’re not good enough to live among us as Jews.’ Then we were told, ‘You’re not good enough to live among us.’ Finally we were told, ‘You’re not good enough to live’.”


Schlissel then comments upon Hilberg’s statement by saying something that Hal Lindsey could have said:

Steve Schlissel wrote:


This devastatingly accurate historical analysis was the fruit of an error, a building of prejudice and hate erected upon a false theological foundation. The blindness of the church regarding the place of the Jew in redemptive history is, I believe, directly responsible for the wicked sins and attitudes described above. What the Church believes about the Jews has always made a difference. But the Church has not always believed a lie.


I hope that you have come to realize that Hal Lindsey’s claims in "The Road To Holocaust" are not something that should be apologized or repented for, nor are they false accusations, and neither should “the book [be] pulled from the market,” as suggested by Gary DeMar. Instead, as one of their own (Schlissel) suggests, it is those who hold to replacement theology, such as Dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism, that should repent.


__________________________________________________________



The earliest known appearance about Dominionism in an online article that's still accessible is the following:


> Excerpts from the 1995 Mother Jones magazine feature story by Adele M. Stan entitled:

Power Preying


Pat Robertson

As a movement made up of people drawn from a range of denominations, the Religious Right has co-opted the name of Christianity in the service of an overarching doctrine of power known as Dominion theology.

"The Constitution of the United States," Robertson told the audience of his television show, "The 700 Club," "is a marvelous document for self-government by Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christians and atheistic people, they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society." Robertson's assertion alludes to his Dominionist belief that Christians, while awaiting Jesus' Second Coming, have the duty to "rule and reign" in His absence in order to prepare the world for His return.

Robertson's brand of Dominion theology derives from an even more extreme doctrine that evolved in the 1970s, Christian Reconstructionism. Despite its obvious contrivances, Christian Reconstructionism, the brainchild of crackpot theologian Rousas John Rushdoony, has had a serious impact on the Religious Right. Hardcore Christian Reconstructionists, such as Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry, call for no less than the reconstitution of the law of ancient Israel as the law of the land [in the USA].

The emphasis here is not simply on the Ten Commandments but rather the whole of the severe law of the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible, especially Levictius), which calls for death by stoning for adulterers, practicing homosexuals, and insubordinate children. The more humane Jewish law of later years is ignored. And it's hard to find Jesus' teachings in reconstructionist and Dominionist thought, which seems to ignore the Savior's lessons about turning the other cheek, rendering unto Caesar, and judging not your neighbor. What, one wonders, do they make of the incident in which Jesus defused a mob keen to stone an adulteress?....

Whatever its theological underpinnings, the Christian America envisioned by the New Right is enough to chill the soul. In a Christian America, there would likely be no jails, since the Bible calls for only two punishments for serious criminals: the making of restitution or execution. Women would be mandated to bear any seed implanted in the womb, by whatever means. (Activists like Phyllis Schlafly of the Eagle Forum object to exemptions in proscriptions against abortion even for the victims of rape and incest.) And, although Jesus urged His people to suffer the little children, in the Right's Christian America, adults would be free to inflict whatever suffering they deign on minors: The intrusive state would be stripped of its power to identify and protect at-risk kids.

Books deemed obscene by the Christian state would be banned; public squares would be dominated by the symbols of the ruling faith; and the borders of a Christian America would be closed to newcomers, regardless of the oppression they experience in their homelands. In short, the inhabitants of the Right's Christian nation would find mercy in short supply.


________________________________________



There is plenty of reason to suspect that TV evangelist Pat Robertson is a Dominionist because during the early to mid-1980s when his Christian Broadcast Network (CBN) was at its zenith, he convened his production staff on one occasion to address the question of how CBN might be able to gain a foothold in Israel (like a satellite office) so that when the Second Coming of Christ occurred, CBN's production crew would already be in place there to televise it.


> Excerpt from the September 1986 Freedom Writer, a publication of the Institute for First Amendment Studies, Inc.:

Robertson To Televise Second Coming

The Rev. Pat Robertson's Sept. 17th multimillion-dollar, three-hour extravaganza will be broadcast in 220 cities, reaching all 50 states. Michael Clifford, whose company, Victory Communications, is coordinating the event, said the telecast is "a first in Presidential politics." Utilizing three communication satellites, mobile earth stations, and some of the nation's largest stadiums, Clifford noted, "This is the largest hookup that's ever been done anywhere to my knowledge."

This event is a mere foreshadowing of what Robertson sees on the horizon.

Last February [1986], The Freedom Writer reported that Robertson claims God spoke through a word of prophecy to him in May 1968 and said, "I have chosen you to usher in the coming of My Son." Robertson elaborated on this prophecy during the week of Dec. 9-12, 1984, when speaking on a Satellite Network Seminar held at the Word of Faith World Outreach Center in Dallas, Texas.

"'I'm going to let you usher Him in,'" Robertson said, referring to the word he claims to have received from God. "Now where do you usher in the coming?" Robertson continued. "You usher in the coming where He's going to come." He then announced that the Christian Broadcasting Network will provide worldwide television coverage of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ from the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. He didn't say when he expected this to take place, but it is known that the 56-year-old evangelist fully expects it to happen in his lifetime.

In the 1984 Dallas sermon, Robertson asked rhetorically, "What's coming next?" Robertson predicted that in the next few years, "God is going to put us [born-again Christians] in positions of leadership and responsibility," "the church members will have taken dominion over the forces of the world," there will be "a spirit-filled President in the White House," "the men in the Senate and House of Representatives are [going to be] spirit-filled and worship Jesus," and "the judges [will] do the same." We will have a school system "where Humanism isn't taught anymore." He also alluded to strict censorship, saying, "pornographers will no longer have any access to the public whatsoever."

Robertson emphasized that these things can take place now, not in the distant future, as this is the time Christ is establishing His kingdom.

_______________________________________________



Although the project was eventually publicly dropped, Robertson's Christian Broadcast Network made budget allocations for its development just the same. According to a former insider, the idea got politely shot down when the consensus of the staff was that they might not see anything but a bright white blinding light when Christ returned and televising that bright white blinding light might prove problematic (in terms of causing a lens-flare issue) and that viewers might not take heart in seeing a TV image of a blinding light. So for all practical considerations, it was deemed uncinematically promising.

The fact that he entertained the notion of such an idea inadvertently reveals that Pat Robertson does not subscribe to the notion of The Rapture (like Hal Lindsey and many mainstream Christians do) and that he anticipated to still be on Earth for Christ's Second Coming (which is an unthinkable notion for those who believe like Hal Lindsey). Dominionists do not subscribe to the notion of The Rapture and instead subscribe to the notion of their having an entire laundry list of things that they absolutely must do -- like outlawing abortion and homosexuality altogether -- before Jesus Christ can make his Second Coming.

One of the proponents of this twisted End-Times ideology is pseudo-historian David Barton, a Republican activist who was involved in the writing of the 2012 and 2016 political platform of the National Republican Convention.


> Excerpts from the June 15, 2015 Huffington Post news story by Bruce Wilson entitled:

Rubio Accepted Endorsement From Dominionist Who Claims The Constitution Is Based on Bible


Marco Rubio and Dominionist pseudo-historian David Barton

David Barton claims the Constitution is based on the Bible; maintains that the Separation of Church and State is a myth; says Jesus opposed the Minimum Wage; and has published writing that appears to endorse “Biblical slavery” for non-Christians....

Barton and Rubio were the main attractions at the September 15th rally according to advance publicity, with Barton billed as a “Constitutional scholar.”

Little more than a month later Barton’s close friend, New Apostolic Reformation prophet Cindy Jacobs, would release a prophecy forecasting the rise of a church-based third major political party led by “righteous” politicians such as Marco Rubio. Jacobs teaches that Dominionist Christians have the God-given mandate to “subdue,” “make subservient,” and “bring into bondage” all unbelievers.

The dual September 15th appearance by Rubio and Barton was almost unnoticed* by media, except for, most prominently, coverage from Talking Points Memo reporter Brian Beutler, who noted that Barton had just helped orchestrate a wildly controversial religious right campaign to revise Texas textbook standards.

Less than a year later, Barton began publicly promoting the New Apostolic Reformation’s “7 Mountains” Dominionist program, which advocates that charismatic Christians should, as New Apostolic Reformation apostle Thomas Muthee outlined shortly before blessing and anointing Sarah Palin in a 2005 ceremony, “invade... infiltrate” seven key sectors of society: government, business, media, education, arts and entertainment, religion, and the family.

Among his many distinctively controversial revisions of history, David Barton has become known for his claim that the authors of the United States Constitution derived key concepts in the document from the Bible, including from the Old Testament books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

And Barton’s Wallbuilders website features writing from a board member of Barton’s Wallbuilders non-profit organization that appears to endorse “Biblical slavery” and features extensive citation of the writing of Rousas J. Rushdoony, the founder of the theocratic movement known as Christian Reconstructionism (the progenitor of Dominionism).

Christian Reconstructionism advocates a radical laissez-faire form of Christian libertarianism that would include the institution of the death penalty for a range of offenses, such as adultery, homosexuality, idolatry, blasphemy, and witchcraft, and even legalize some forms of human slavery.

David Barton once appeared in a Time magazine special feature on the “25 Most Influential Evangelicals In America.” But his star dimmed greatly in 2012 when the evangelical right publisher Thomas Nelson yanked from bookstore shelves David Barton’s new 2012 book The Jefferson Lies due to numerous factual inaccuracies.

Barton’s book had been selected by the History News Network as the “least credible history book in print.” In addition, Barton has been publicly identified, by historian and Military Religious Freedom Foundation head researcher Chris Rodda, as a “liar for Jesus.” Barton has not chosen to contest the characterization.

Despite such pushback, Barton has nonetheless inspired an entire generation of religious right activists with his claims that America was founded as an expressly Christian nation, and through his promotion of the myth that the great crime wave which began to sweep the nation in the 1970s and peaked in the early 1990s happened because of two key U.S. Supreme Court decisions that in the early 1960s banned sectarian Bible lessons in public schools and eliminated mandatory school prayer.




In his little known 1988 book "America: To Pray or Not To Pray", almost unnoticed by secular society but wildly influential among the leadership of the emerging religious right movement, Barton laid out his thesis — that those two Supreme Court decisions incurred the wrath of God and so triggered a great wave of social dysfunction featuring rising crime, divorce, and teen pregnancy rates (most of the trends cited by Barton began to reverse between the late 1980s and the early 1990s.)

David Barton enjoys a close working relationship with the Christian supremacist apostles and prophets of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), whose dominionist agenda that calls on believers to “rule as kings”, finally gained some mainstream media notice in 2011 after a prayer rally, dominated by NAR apostles and prophets, that kicked off Texas governor Rick Perry’s 2012 presidential bid.

Top NAR leaders advocate burning books and scripture (including books of Mormon), and destroying religious relics associated with Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam.


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James King
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Kiraboshi wrote:
Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes.

When a baker of any religious denomination or no religious denomination at all opens a business in the public square, he/she has to bake cakes for everybody of the general public - period.

Moreover, since he doesn't support that discriminatory new wave of state "religious freedom/protection bills", Gary Johnson most definitely is not a Dominionist.


 
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Steve Cates
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+1 for bringing up not all Christians are Dominionists and using Hal Lindsey to prove your point.
 
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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:

Kiraboshi wrote:
Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes.

When a baker of any religious denomination or no religious denomination at all opens a business in the public square, he/she has to bake cakes for everybody of the general public - period.

Says who? Why can he not protest his freedom of association, or his freedom to labor only on those things he chooses rather than those you choose for him? Moreover, you don't actually mean what you assert. If I came into the bakery stark naked and heiling Hitler, you wouldn't think he had to bake my cake.

Returning to the topic, whatever your opinion of the cake issue, the question is whether this stance is contrary to libertarian principles, thus disqualifying Gary Johnson as a libertarian. It's a clear violation of the non-aggression principle, because a discriminating baker doesn't employ force or fraud in choosing to reject some proposed transactions on grounds you don't appreciate. There is no basis, under libertarian law, for the government to step in and coerce him into accepting an involuntary transaction and thus subjecting him to a condition of forced labor.
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Damian
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Kiraboshi wrote:
It's a clear violation of the non-aggression principle,

You can't support NAP and be a libertarian. NAP is an anarchist concept. The very existence of a state defies the NAP.
 
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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


Kiraboshi wrote:
Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes.

When a baker of any religious denomination or no religious denomination at all opens a business in the public square, he/she has to bake cakes for everybody of the general public - period.



Negative...that's the nub of what is wrong with modern society. Just accept he doesn't want to make you a cake and move on.

To do otherwise is to deny both his freedom of choice and freedom of association.



Ferret


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Ferretman wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


Kiraboshi wrote:
Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes.

When a baker of any religious denomination or no religious denomination at all opens a business in the public square, he/she has to bake cakes for everybody of the general public - period.



Negative...that's the nub of what is wrong with modern society. Just accept he doesn't want to make you a cake and move on.

To do otherwise is to deny both his freedom of choice and freedom of association.



Ferret



And when the guy interviewing you says he doesn't hire Jews, just move on.
And when the landlord says he doesn't rent to Mexicans, just move on.
And when the dean of admissions says sorry, we don't enroll blacks, just move on.
And when the doctor says he only treats men, just move on.

Where does it end? In essence, what you are advocating is the legalization of discriminatory practices.

My father owned a used book store (actually 6) for 30 years after he retired from the Air Force. All sorts of people came into his store looking for all sorts of material, including some that got him in trouble with the local anti-porn DA. He sold whatever he had to whoever walked in the door, even if he detested them. Why? He was operating a public business...and was old enough to remember when black people had to use the "nigger only" water fountains. That's where you're going, Steve, whether you believe that or not. Just because someone says God tells him to not do something doesn't mean anyone else has to accept that claim.
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remorseless1 wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


Kiraboshi wrote:
Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes.

When a baker of any religious denomination or no religious denomination at all opens a business in the public square, he/she has to bake cakes for everybody of the general public - period.



Negative...that's the nub of what is wrong with modern society. Just accept he doesn't want to make you a cake and move on.

To do otherwise is to deny both his freedom of choice and freedom of association.



Ferret



And when the guy interviewing you says he doesn't hire Jews, just move on.
And when the landlord says he doesn't rent to Mexicans, just move on.
And when the dean of admissions says sorry, we don't enroll blacks, just move on.
And when the doctor says he only treats men, just move on.


In a better world, yes.

remorseless1 wrote:

Where does it end? In essence, what you are advocating is the legalization of discriminatory practices.


And what you are advocating is exactly the same thing. The tragedy is you don't see it, because you agree with the current slant of discrimination.


remorseless1 wrote:

My father owned a used book store (actually 6) for 30 years after he retired from the Air Force. All sorts of people came into his store looking for all sorts of material, including some that got him in trouble with the local anti-porn DA. He sold whatever he had to whoever walked in the door, even if he detested them. Why? He was operating a public business...and was old enough to remember when black people had to use the "nigger only" water fountains. That's where you're going, Steve, whether you believe that or not. Just because someone says God tells him to not do something doesn't mean anyone else has to accept that claim.


Nor did I recall said bakers asking somebody to accept said claim. You probably recall differently.

If I'd been your father I would have run my business the same way, but because it was my choice to do so, not the State's. The instant you allow the State to infringe you my right of association, for example, you allow it to infringe on anything at all.

You dismiss one right in favor of another. They are all equal.


Ferret
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Ferretman wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


Kiraboshi wrote:
Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes.

When a baker of any religious denomination or no religious denomination at all opens a business in the public square, he/she has to bake cakes for everybody of the general public - period.



Negative...that's the nub of what is wrong with modern society. Just accept he doesn't want to make you a cake and move on.

To do otherwise is to deny both his freedom of choice and freedom of association.



Ferret



And when the guy interviewing you says he doesn't hire Jews, just move on.
And when the landlord says he doesn't rent to Mexicans, just move on.
And when the dean of admissions says sorry, we don't enroll blacks, just move on.
And when the doctor says he only treats men, just move on.


In a better world, yes.

remorseless1 wrote:

Where does it end? In essence, what you are advocating is the legalization of discriminatory practices.


And what you are advocating is exactly the same thing. The tragedy is you don't see it, because you agree with the current slant of discrimination.


remorseless1 wrote:

My father owned a used book store (actually 6) for 30 years after he retired from the Air Force. All sorts of people came into his store looking for all sorts of material, including some that got him in trouble with the local anti-porn DA. He sold whatever he had to whoever walked in the door, even if he detested them. Why? He was operating a public business...and was old enough to remember when black people had to use the "nigger only" water fountains. That's where you're going, Steve, whether you believe that or not. Just because someone says God tells him to not do something doesn't mean anyone else has to accept that claim.


Nor did I recall said bakers asking somebody to accept said claim. You probably recall differently.

If I'd been your father I would have run my business the same way, but because it was my choice to do so, not the State's. The instant you allow the State to infringe you my right of association, for example, you allow it to infringe on anything at all.

You dismiss one right in favor of another. They are all equal.


Ferret


So let's go forward to a time when you are the minority.

No one will rent or sell you or your family a place to live.
No one will give you or your family a job.
No one will sell you or your family products.
No one will give you or your family medical treatment.
No one will give you or your family legal services.

Does that sound like a fair government to you?

From a veil of ignorance, not knowing if you were to be the outcast or the ones in power, would you prefer to risk living in such a society?

---
Anyway, I disagree strongly with everything you said and think it's wonderful that the republicans in their current incarnation are disintegrating. They started leaving me 20 years ago. They left me completely 4 years ago.
 
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maxo-texas wrote:
[/b]

Favors topic 1: Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+2 points on Social scale)
Favors topic 2: Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-3 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Favors topic 3: Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)
Favors topic 4: Keep God in the public sphere
(-3 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 5: Expand ObamaCare
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Favors topic 6: Privatize Social Security
(+2 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 7: Vouchers for school choice
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Favors topic 8: EPA regulations are too restrictive
(-3 points on Social scale)
Opposes topic 9: Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 10: Absolute right to gun ownership
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 11: Higher taxes on the wealthy
(+5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 12: Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+5 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 13: Support & expand free trade
(+5 points on Economic scale)

Favors topic 14: Support American Exceptionalism
(+2 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 15: Expand the military
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 16: Make voter registration easier
(-3 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 17: Avoid foreign entanglements
(+5 points on Social scale)
Opposes topic 18: Prioritize green energy
(+2 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 19: Marijuana is a gateway drug
(+5 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 20: Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(+5 points on Economic scale)




That's all kind of misleading. I think you needed the extra column. For example, keep God in the public sphere. Normally, I'd be like uhhh, no. But when you read the comments, he wants vouchers to be available, including vouchers for religious schools. I agree with that. But he also supports separation of church and state which I also agree with.
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she2 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
[/b]

Favors topic 1: Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+2 points on Social scale)
Favors topic 2: Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-3 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Favors topic 3: Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)
Favors topic 4: Keep God in the public sphere
(-3 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 5: Expand ObamaCare
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Favors topic 6: Privatize Social Security
(+2 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 7: Vouchers for school choice
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Favors topic 8: EPA regulations are too restrictive
(-3 points on Social scale)
Opposes topic 9: Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 10: Absolute right to gun ownership
(+5 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 11: Higher taxes on the wealthy
(+5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 12: Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+5 points on Social scale)
Strongly Favors topic 13: Support & expand free trade
(+5 points on Economic scale)

Favors topic 14: Support American Exceptionalism
(+2 points on Economic scale)
Strongly Opposes topic 15: Expand the military
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 16: Make voter registration easier
(-3 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 17: Avoid foreign entanglements
(+5 points on Social scale)
Opposes topic 18: Prioritize green energy
(+2 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 19: Marijuana is a gateway drug
(+5 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 20: Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(+5 points on Economic scale)




That's all kind of misleading. I think you needed the extra column. For example, keep God in the public sphere. Normally, I'd be like uhhh, no. But when you read the comments, he wants vouchers to be available, including vouchers for religious schools. I agree with that. But he also supports separation of church and state which I also agree with.


It's a tricky balance between providing enough information and going full shreve.

Based on the comments I'll put the double column in.
There is a layer of summary quotes behind that.
And then a layer of detailed quotes behind those.


Okay- I've placed the extra information in the 1st post.
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J.D. Hall
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Ferretman wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Where does it end? In essence, what you are advocating is the legalization of discriminatory practices.


And what you are advocating is exactly the same thing. The tragedy is you don't see it, because you agree with the current slant of discrimination.

I like reading your posts, even the 30% or so I don't agree with. But I'm at a loss as to how to respond -- by saying a public business has to serve those who come through their door and not refuse them based on religious belief, race, culture, or sexual preference is DISCRIMINATION???

Look, I've never said a person has to accept anyone into their home, or into their circle of friends. They don't have to accept people in their church who don't believe as they do. In private life, people should be able to be around those they want to be around, and not have to associate with people they don't want to be around. But a public business or association, no, you can't discriminate.
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Chris R.
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I heard my first Gary Johnson radio ad today.

He basically wasted time saying that he wasn't a member of one of the two major political parties.

Uh, I think we already knew that.
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Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
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Kiraboshi wrote:
Gary Johnson would force a Christian baker to bake gay wedding cakes. He supports the TPP. Altogether, some of his positions disqualify him from being a genuine libertarian.

whac3 wrote:
What does "Keep G-d in the public sphere" mean?


They have a page of clarifications for each question:
http://www.ontheissues.org/VoteMatch/q4_2016.asp
He's a "Gliboblobbyist"? "Glomnomnomon"? "Gliberauthoritarian"? ALSO the 'cake' is a LIME-sort!
 
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Stephen Rost
United States
Fort Wayne
Indiana
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damiangerous wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
It's a clear violation of the non-aggression principle,

You can't support NAP and be a libertarian. NAP is an anarchist concept. The very existence of a state defies the NAP.


You've asserted that a few times before Damian, and I'm not sure I agree. I think anarcho-capitalists are libertarians, albeit quite radical ones, but of course not all libertarians are anarcho-capitalists.

In the same way I would consider all vegans as vegetarians, but not all vegetarians are so strict in their ideology to be considered vegans.

Personally, I think of Johnson like a pesco pollo vegetarian--he's got some definite tendencies, but I think it's a stretch to give him the official title without addenda.
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