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The Ravens of Thri Sahashri» Forums » Rules

Subject: Questions: Safe Area, Completing Poem Rows, Card Abilities rss

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Mark Johnson
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1) There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 3rd card in the memory row. If this card is a Raven, can Feth react to this by using the purple poem card to increase the safety row by two (to 4) to ensure that the Raven will be discarded?

2) With regards to red card abilities: If it's Ren's turn and she is on the the final line of the Poem row that is currently completed (say a 2 and a 3 are there), can Ren use a red card and complete the dream without having to take a card from the Atman, or must Ren remove a card on her turn regardless?

3) There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 3rd card in the memory row. This card is a Raven and the only raven currently in the memory row. Feth continues and draws 2 more cards. Both are non-raven cards. There is currently 5 cards in the memory row. Feth stops drawing. Is the safe area considered to be 2 or 3 for the purposes of the remaining 4 cards?
 
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David Taranto
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Not official in any capacity, but this is how I've done it:

1) I've interpreted it as being able to do it as a reaction. Since nothing moves to the Raven row until you decide to stop drawing anyway, there's nothing to say that you don't have an "initiative" between drawing the raven and ending Feth's draw phase. Heck, you could flip the raven, turn the purple card, and flip one more for good measure with the extra Safe Zone spot.

2) It seems that checking for the completion of the dream is done at the end of a Feth-Ren sequence of turns. From the Osprey Games rulebook, 2016 edition:

"If (the colours do) not (match), play continues, and Feth must add cards to the Atman as usual. Ren must discard one card from the Atman each turn, until both players have found a way to make the colours match."

It seems to imply that you check after both players have -completed- their turn whether the dream is over or not.

3) I think the safe zone becomes 3, but slot #3 has been vacated by the raven. Plus, "the size of this safe area applies when cards are drawn, not when they are played." So cards are granted safety or not based on the slots they are drawn into, not any slot they might "slide" into (I never slide cards, in order to prevent this confusion).
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Simon Lundström
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Eeeville wrote:
1) There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 3rd card in the memory row. If this card is a Raven, can Feth react to this by using the purple poem card to increase the safety row by two (to 4) to ensure that the Raven will be discarded?


Yes.

Eeeville wrote:
2) With regards to red card abilities: If it's Ren's turn and she is on the the final line of the Poem row that is currently completed (say a 2 and a 3 are there), can Ren use a red card and complete the dream without having to take a card from the Atman, or must Ren remove a card on her turn regardless?


Ren must always remove a card. The dream can only be completed after Ren has had her turn.

Eeeville wrote:
3) There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 3rd card in the memory row. This card is a Raven and the only raven currently in the memory row. Feth continues and draws 2 more cards. Both are non-raven cards. There is currently 5 cards in the memory row. Feth stops drawing. Is the safe area considered to be 2 or 3 for the purposes of the remaining 4 cards?


I don't know why this would matter. The safe zone applies in two ways:
1) After all cards have been drawn, ravens drawn within the safe zone are not added to the raven row, but discarded.
(Below rule is in the Osprey edition only)
2) After Feth has finished his turn, all cards left in the memory (that Feth didn't build with) are discarded. Cards of a colour of an active raven will be put beneath that raven, but memory cards within the safe zone are discarded as normal.

The added 2) has given some people the impression that, after putting drawn ravens in the raven row, the remaining cards "slide" into place. Such is not the case.

So in your question, the answer is that, when Feth has finished drawing, the raven he drew will be in the raven row, hence the safety zone is 3. But it won't matter, because the fourth and the fifth card he drew are in place 4 and 5 anyway.
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Mark Johnson
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Zimeon wrote:
So in your question, the answer is that, when Feth has finished drawing, the raven he drew will be in the raven row, hence the safety zone is 3. But it won't matter, because the fourth and the fifth card he drew are in place 4 and 5 anyway.


So, would this be the correct interpretation based on a slightly altered scenario:

There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 4th card in the memory row. This card is a Raven and the only raven currently in the memory row. Feth continues and draws 1 more card. It is a non-raven card. There is currently 5 cards in the memory row. Feth stops drawing. The Raven goes to the Raven row and the safe zone applies to the 3 cards above it and the fourth card can be potentially stolen by ravens assuming the colors match and Feth doesn't want to place it in the Atman.

Another Scenario:

There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 4th card in the memory row. All cards are non-ravens. Feth stops drawing. Feth plays his right-most card to the Atman which causes the Ren to relive her memory in Red. The left-most Raven is Red and is chased away. Do you slide the remaining Raven to the left and the safe area is only the left-most card?

Another question about the red card ability:

There is one that discards 2 cards from the Atman. Are these discards simultaneous or will a split in the Atman caused by the first discard interrupt the second discard. Basically wondering if you can potentially cause two separate splits in the Atman using this card (ie if the discards are not simultaneous).
 
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Simon Lundström
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Eeeville wrote:
There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 4th card in the memory row. This card is a Raven and the only raven currently in the memory row. Feth continues and draws 1 more card. It is a non-raven card. There is currently 5 cards in the memory row. Feth stops drawing. The Raven goes to the Raven row and the safe zone applies to the 3 cards above it and the fourth card can be potentially stolen by ravens assuming the colors match and Feth doesn't want to place it in the Atman.


It would seem so, though I am not a master of this exact rule, as this extended application of the safety zone was introduced by Osprey. But by the timing in the game, yes, it should be so.

Eeeville wrote:
There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 4th card in the memory row. All cards are non-ravens. Feth stops drawing. Feth plays his right-most card to the Atman which causes the Ren to relive her memory in Red. The left-most Raven is Red and is chased away. Do you slide the remaining Raven to the left and the safe area is only the left-most card?


you don't need to slide the cards, but the safety zone is only as long as there are present ravens (chased away ravens don't count), so in effect, yes, this would mean that only the leftmost card is "safe".

Eeeville wrote:
There is one that discards 2 cards from the Atman. Are these discards simultaneous or will a split in the Atman caused by the first discard interrupt the second discard. Basically wondering if you can potentially cause two separate splits in the Atman using this card (ie if the discards are not simultaneous).


In fact, there should be three cards that discard 2 cards from the Atman. They are discarded at the same time; only after that a split will occur. As I've understood.
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Filip Falk Hartelius
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Filip from Osprey Games here.

Eeeville wrote:
There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 4th card in the memory row. This card is a Raven and the only raven currently in the memory row. Feth continues and draws 1 more card. It is a non-raven card. There is currently 5 cards in the memory row. Feth stops drawing. The Raven goes to the Raven row and the safe zone applies to the 3 cards above it and the fourth card can be potentially stolen by ravens assuming the colors match and Feth doesn't want to place it in the Atman.

Correct.

Eeeville wrote:
There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 4th card in the memory row. All cards are non-ravens. Feth stops drawing. Feth plays his right-most card to the Atman which causes the Ren to relive her memory in Red. The left-most Raven is Red and is chased away. Do you slide the remaining Raven to the left and the safe area is only the left-most card?

Yes, the safety area immediately shrinks

Eeeville wrote:
There is one that discards 2 cards from the Atman. Are these discards simultaneous or will a split in the Atman caused by the first discard interrupt the second discard. Basically wondering if you can potentially cause two separate splits in the Atman using this card (ie if the discards are not simultaneous).

They are simultaneous; you resolve any split after both are discarded
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Filip_FH wrote:
Filip from Osprey Games here.

Eeeville wrote:
There are two ravens in play and Feth draws his 4th card in the memory row. This card is a Raven and the only raven currently in the memory row. Feth continues and draws 1 more card. It is a non-raven card. There is currently 5 cards in the memory row. Feth stops drawing. The Raven goes to the Raven row and the safe zone applies to the 3 cards above it and the fourth card can be potentially stolen by ravens assuming the colors match and Feth doesn't want to place it in the Atman.

Correct.


I thought the newly-added raven did not add to the length of the safety zone until the next turn, so in this case the 3rd card in the row would still be vulnerable on the current turn. Is that not right?
 
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Filip Falk Hartelius
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qwertymartin wrote:
I thought the newly-added raven did not add to the length of the safety zone until the next turn, so in this case the 3rd card in the row would still be vulnerable on the current turn. Is that not right?


Sorry, that's my bad for misreading the example. You are correct, the safe area is extended only the next turn.

To make this easier/clearer during gameplay, it is worth offsetting the newly added Ravens slightly to show that they don't immediately contribute to the safe area. Alternatively, you could add the Ravens to the Raven row after doing your normal discards. The end result should be the same
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