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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question on Claustrophobia rss

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Aaron Velox
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I know that a space--normally the big tiles--that have 3 or more spaces are safe from that horror. However, I believe that's only if the spaces loop or if there's more than 3 spaces.

Take for example the Attic/Attic Stairs tile. It's 3 spaces, but they are in a linear line; the first and third spaces are adjacent with a wall, so you can't loop. So if I were to end my turn on the middle space, would I suffer horror?
 
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blueshinymarbl blueshinymarble
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My wife and I ran into this card last night and we couldn't for the life of us figure out its meaning. Could somebody please clearly explain how to apply this card's effect? We couldn't really figure it out so we kind of just ended up ignoring it.
 
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Scott Cantor
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blueshinymarble wrote:
My wife and I ran into this card last night and we couldn't for the life of us figure out its meaning. Could somebody please clearly explain how to apply this card's effect? We couldn't really figure it out so we kind of just ended up ignoring it.


I don't have the text in front of me but my recollection is that it just means if the room you end your turn in has 1 or 2 spaces only, the effect applies.

Rooms are bounded by brown walls. Almost any of the rectangular tiles tend to have rooms of size 2 or 2 rooms of size 1 each. Does that help?
 
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blueshinymarbl blueshinymarble
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Thanks for the quick reply.

The card states, if I remember correctly, if you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces you take one horror, it doesn't really say anything about room size.

The claustrophobia card in the first edition stated something to the effect of you would take one horror if you ended your turn in a room with one space I think. IIRC it specifically stated room size.

Does the second edition card have the same effect or similar effect?
 
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Scott Cantor
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blueshinymarble wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply.

The card states, if I remember correctly, if you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces you take one horror, it doesn't really say anything about room size.

The claustrophobia card in the first edition stated something to the effect of you would take one horror if you ended your turn in a room with one space I think. IIRC it specifically stated room size.

Does the second edition card have the same effect or similar effect?


Similar, but it affects more rooms. Range is blocked by doors and walls, so a 2 space room generally means you're not in range of 3 spaces.

The OP has a good point, I hadn't considered the implications of that wording. Technically even a 3 space room would qualify since range doesn't include the space you're in.

I think you'd have to be in a larger hallway or a room with four spaces.
 
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blueshinymarbl blueshinymarble
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Thank you for the clarification I think I understand it now.
So you need to be able to count 3 range on your tile excluding your space to be considered safe from the effects? So if I can count 3 range from my space uninterrupted by a door or barrier I should be safe.
And if that's the case then the card is pretty nasty hence there's only one of it in the deck is the thinking right? If you get this card you should be gaining horror every turn it seems?
 
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Aaron Velox
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More Mellotron wrote:
The OP has a good point, I hadn't considered the implications of that wording. Technically even a 3 space room would qualify since range doesn't include the space you're in.

I think you'd have to be in a larger hallway or a room with four spaces.


"The range of effects that use the phrase 'within range' is up to three spaces away."

I suppose you're right. Three space tiles aren't safe from that horror either

blueshinymarble wrote:
Thank you for the clarification I think I understand it now.
So you need to be able to count 3 range on your tile excluding your space to be considered safe from the effects? So if I can count 3 range from my space uninterrupted by a door or barrier I should be safe.
And if that's the case then the card is pretty nasty hence there's only one of it in the deck is the thinking right? If you get this card you should be gaining horror every turn it seems?


Yup. Only one "Claustrophobia" in a forty card deck. But when playing with multiple investigators, especially those that have high horror values, the chances of someone drawing it and/or flipping it isn't surprising.
 
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Anthony Harlan

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Claustrophobia wrote:

Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror


Essentially it could read, "At the end of your turn, put a jelly bean on each board space within range ('...up to three spaces away... cannot be counted through walls or doors... can be counted through impassible borders.' -Rules Reference, p15). Eat all jelly beans placed this way. If you eat 2 or fewer jelly beans in this manner, suffer a facedown Horror."

This version is wordier, but you get to eat jelly beans.

In the specific tile, you would not take a horror. You have range to "Attic-Bed", "Attic-Door", and "Attic Stairs".
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Anthony Harlan

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More Mellotron wrote:

The OP has a good point, I hadn't considered the implications of that wording. Technically even a 3 space room would qualify since range doesn't include the space you're in.


I don't see anywhere that range doesn't count the space you're in. It is 0 away from you, and 0<3.
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George Aristides
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Mxyzptlk wrote:
More Mellotron wrote:

The OP has a good point, I hadn't considered the implications of that wording. Technically even a 3 space room would qualify since range doesn't include the space you're in.


I don't see anywhere that range doesn't count the space you're in. It is 0 away from you, and 0<3.


I think that range does count the space you are in. So you can shoot a pistol at a monster on your space, and you can use "in range" abilities (like the Priest's) on another investigator that is on your space.
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blueshinymarbl blueshinymarble
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Mxyzptlk wrote:
Claustrophobia wrote:

Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror


Essentially it could read, "At the end of your turn, put a jelly bean on each board space within range ('...up to three spaces away... cannot be counted through walls or doors... can be counted through impassible borders.' -Rules Reference, p15). Eat all jelly beans placed this way. If you eat 2 or fewer jelly beans in this manner, suffer a facedown Horror."

This version is wordier, but you get to eat jelly beans


This!! This actually made complete sense thank you for the tasty analogy
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Aaron Velox
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blueshinymarble wrote:
This!! This actually made complete sense thank you for the tasty analogy


Except this tasty analogy is wrong, I believe. Range doesn't work based on spaces total, but in the direction. Look at the picture below:


O O
_

O O

Suppose those dots represent a space, while the line represents a wall. There are four spaces in this room, yes, but think where you might be standing. If standing at the dots on the far left, you could easily count three spaces if going in a circle when counting right and avoiding the wall, so no worries for horror. But then look at the far right dots with you standing there... If standing at one of those dots, you could only count two spaces one direction and one space the other. True, there's three spaces not counting where you're standing, but being within range is up to three spaces AWAY, not TOTAL.

So, in a circumstance like this, you should still lose horror (despite the comedic realization that the room itself is still quite large.)
 
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blueshinymarbl blueshinymarble
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StarryAqua wrote:
blueshinymarble wrote:
This!! This actually made complete sense thank you for the tasty analogy


Except this tasty analogy is wrong, I believe. Range doesn't work based on spaces total, but in the direction. Look at the picture below:


O O
_

O O

Suppose those dots represent a space, while the line represents a wall. There are four spaces in this room, yes, but think where you might be standing. If standing at the dots on the far left, you could easily count three spaces if going in a circle when counting right and avoiding the wall, so no worries for horror. But then look at the far right dots with you standing there... If standing at one of those dots, you could only count two spaces one direction and one space the other. True, there's three spaces not counting where you're standing, but being within range is up to three spaces AWAY, not TOTAL.

So, in a circumstance like this, you should still lose horror (despite the comedic realization that the room itself is still quite large.)


But Mxyzptlk does mention that it can't be counted through walls and doors if you read his reference in parentheses. Actually your illustration and explanation sound like his too if you see that he takes into account the wall and door blocking range bit.
 
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Scott Cantor
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Mxyzptlk wrote:
More Mellotron wrote:

The OP has a good point, I hadn't considered the implications of that wording. Technically even a 3 space room would qualify since range doesn't include the space you're in.


I don't see anywhere that range doesn't count the space you're in. It is 0 away from you, and 0<3.


Fair point, yes. The space you're in should be in range of you, thus counting as one of the three. I overthought it.
 
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Scott Cantor
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StarryAqua wrote:
blueshinymarble wrote:
This!! This actually made complete sense thank you for the tasty analogy


Except this tasty analogy is wrong, I believe. Range doesn't work based on spaces total, but in the direction.


Yes, but the card does base it on count, you're counting the spaces you are in range of, in any direction. Doesn't IMHO mean you have to reach 3 away in any one direction.
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Steve S
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More Mellotron wrote:
StarryAqua wrote:
blueshinymarble wrote:
This!! This actually made complete sense thank you for the tasty analogy


Except this tasty analogy is wrong, I believe. Range doesn't work based on spaces total, but in the direction.


Yes, but the card does base it on count, you're counting the spaces you are in range of, in any direction. Doesn't IMHO mean you have to reach 3 away in any one direction.


This is exactly as I understand it too. It's not can you see as far as range 3, it's can you count 3 spaces from where you currently are without going out of range.
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Roger Edwards
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I think rewording this will help.

Is the enclosed room you are in only 1 or 2 spaces in size? Impassable borders – e.g. the dining room/kitchen hatch (2e) – do not enclose.

Yes: Claustrophobia has an effect.
No: Nothing happens.
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Aaron Velox
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I don't know. I still say it's 3 away in a direction, not total. Can someone please poke Nikki about this?
 
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Chris Lawson
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StarryAqua wrote:
I don't know. I still say it's 3 away in a direction, not total. Can someone please poke Nikki about this?

The Claustrophobia card says...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror.

I must admit, I fail to see why this should mean 3 spaces in a particular direction. I take it to means that within your range (i.e. all spaces within 3) are there only 2 or fewer spaces. Note: Range cannot be counted through walls or doors.

Think that instead of the card saying "2 or fewer spaces", it said "2 or fewer monsters". Isn't that clear that it would mean "are there 2 or fewer monsters within 3 spaces". There would be no reason to think that these monsters must be arranged in a line (or a direction).
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Anthony Harlan

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StarryAqua wrote:
I don't know. I still say it's 3 away in a direction, not total. Can someone please poke Nikki about this?


Claustrophobia wrote:

Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror


If instead of "spaces" it said "cultists," would the cultist have to be lined up? The question is how many spaces are you in range of? Count that quantity, and check against 2.

The rules aren't really written for your interpretation, but it would be like, "At the end of your turn take one facedown Horror unless you can measure range to a space that is 3 spaces away"
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Paul S
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StarryAqua wrote:
I don't know. I still say it's 3 away in a direction, not total. Can someone please poke Nikki about this?


The more I look at it, the worse I think the wording is.

How are you "in range of 2 spaces"? Range is 3 spaces from where you are. So the wording translates to "within 3 spaces of 2 spaces" which is just horrid. It seems to be treating the word "range" differently from its definition in the RRG.

I like Roger's clear approach, and think I'll use it for now, but it could use some clarification, I agree.
 
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Steve S
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StarryAqua wrote:
I don't know. I still say it's 3 away in a direction, not total. Can someone please poke Nikki about this?


Imagine there was a tile of a single room, that tile was 5 spaces by 5 spaces, that's a total of 25 spaces for a single room. Now if your investigator was stood in the centre of the room they would only see 2 tiles in front of them in all directions, not the 3 that you suggest is needed for it not to be Claustrophobic, yet a 25 space room could not be considered Claustrophobic.
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Sean McLaughlin
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More Mellotron wrote:
Similar, but it affects more rooms. Range is blocked by doors and walls, so a 2 space room generally means you're not in range of 3 spaces.

The OP has a good point, I hadn't considered the implications of that wording. Technically even a 3 space room would qualify since range doesn't include the space you're in.

I think you'd have to be in a larger hallway or a room with four spaces.

That's how I interpret it as well. There need to be 3 or more spaces within range of your current position (not passing through doors/walls or counting your current space), otherwise you suffer the effect of claustrophobia.

In the Cycle of Eternity scenario - at least with the map I've seen both times around - there are only 3 general locations where you would NOT be affected: the two large tiles and the hallway (which spans multiple tiles).

Basically, you're going to want to stay out of all the rooms that exist on the smaller tiles, and some of the rooms on the larger tiles.
 
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blueshinymarbl blueshinymarble
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Natai wrote:
[q="More Mellotron]
Basically, you're going to want to stay out of all the rooms that exist on the smaller tiles, and some of the rooms on the larger tiles.


Nasty bugger of a card it is.

StarryAqua wrote:
I don't know. I still say it's 3 away in a direction, not total. Can someone please poke Nikki about this?


I'd also like some official clarification on this if it's at all possible.
 
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BT Carpenter
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As has been said a few times, the card says:
Quote:

Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror


The other part of the equation is the definition of "Within Range":
Quote:

Range
The range of effects that use the phrase “within range” is up to three
spaces away.
^ Range cannot be counted through walls or doors unless an effect
specifically allows it.
^ Range can be counted through impassable borders.
Related Topics: Border, Door, Impassable Border, Space, Wall


From any given space on the board, every other space on the board has one of two states:
In Range
Not In Range


The space you are in is always "in Range". Thus you are always "within range" of at least one space (the one your character is standing in).

So:

If you're in a small beach shack (1 space)... take a horror.

If you're in a room with only one other space "within range", all others being "not in range" due to walls/doors... take a horror.

If you're in a room with two other spaces "within range", you're okay.

If you're in a hallway/street with only one other space within range -- enjoy that horror.

If you're in a hallway/street with two or more other spaces within range -- you are ok, no horror.

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