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Dale of Merchants» Forums » Rules

Subject: Passive abilities questions rss

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Ibrahim Rodríguez
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Hey guys,

I hope you are well. Got the game today and it looks amazing, I just wanted to clarify few things before teaching the game to my wife and gaming group.

I'm not very clear when exactly some passive effects happen. The rulebook says "Passive cards have effects which apply when you have the card in your hand or when using the card for other actions" so from what I understood you need to read the passive effect and see if it can be used while in your hand or if the card needs to be played. Is that right? or all passive effects can whether be used while in your hand or when the card hits the table?

Let me leave some examples here so you know what I mean.

"Cookies" - obviously need to be in your hand because the effect doesn't make any sense when hitting the table.

"Good Old Times" - It doesn't make any sense to me trying to play this one while in my hand, how would you do that? only show the card to your opponent, copy the top card of the market's discard pile and that's it? and what exactly can I copy? the value of the card or the effect? or both? My understanding is that this passive effect would only happen if I use this card as part of Market action or Stall action. Is that right?

"Bold Haggler" - Can I roll while in my hand? or does this one need to hit the table in order to apply the effect? Let's say I use it for a Stall action and the result of the die is higher than expected to create a new stack, what can I do now? or can I decide not to use its new value?

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.
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Tobias Lunte
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For ease of discussion:

Cookies - When you draw new cards, don't count this card towards the card limit in your hand

Good Old Times - This card is a copy of the top card of the market's discard pile. You may throw away 1 card from the market deck once in your turn.

Bold Haggles - You may roll [die] once in your turn and addd the rolled value to this card's value for this turn.

---


If we get very technical, there are really three types of Passive cards:

- Permanent effects: Most of the chameleon cards work like this. It just states something about the card that is true at all times when the card is in your possession (i.e. not while it's still on the market). Example: Flexible Shopkeeper - This card is a copy of any card in the rightmost stack in your stall. That is already true while it's in your hand, but will only really matter if you use it for something. (Because of this they also have an implied: if there's a decision to be made, only make it when it impacts gameplay. That way, you don't spend ages declaring who all your chameleons are copying if you don't even want to use them this turn)

- Triggered effects: These are the majority and automatically happen as soon as a specific other action is carried out, they always begin with 'when'. Cookies is an example for this, the effect applies when drawing new cards. (The hand limit isn't checked at any other time which can make this feel like a permament card, but it really only triggers at that one moment)

- The admittedly very weird "do something once a turn but don't discard this card to do so because it isn't a technique" effects. They include 'once in your turn' in the card text and you have to remember whether you've already done it this turn. They are classified as 'passive' because these actions aren't useful themselves but only support other actions that you can do with this card. Bold Haggler is one such card. You can play the 'once per turn' while it's in your hand, but the modifier will apply for the rest of the turn, so you can then decide whether you want to use the card for an action.

Finally, Good old times has both a permanent and a 'once per turn' effect. It is always true that it's a copy of the topmost market discard, however, you can use the 'once per turn' action to change what it is that the card copies. As with all chameleon cards, 'copy' refers to both value and effect (Edit: and color).
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Sami Laakso
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Could not have written it better than Tobias just did. One small thing to add to the Chameleons: they also copy the animalfolk colour. Thus passive Chamemelon cards aren't green when used to build up your stall.

Don't hesitate to ask, if there's anything unclear after these answers.
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Ibrahim Rodríguez
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Thanks for your responses guys!

I think I got super confused and understood that some cards need to be played first in order to activate its passive ability. I see now that depending on what you are going to do with the card, a chameleon for example, you simply choose to copy another card and then perform the action with the card as normal, as if it was the card it copied.

Anyway, sorry to waste your time with those dumb questions blush

I have another dumb question

On this gameplay video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwYphRnN9f4 when you first use "Good Old Times" the market's discard pile was empty, so you draw a card to create the discard pile. Is that allowed? or if the discard pile is empty you simply won't be able to activate the passive ability? if there is no discard pile yet you lose the chance to use the ability but can you throw away a card from the market anyway?

Thanks again!

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Brodie
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Hexanauta wrote:

On this gameplay video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwYphRnN9f4 when you first use "Good Old Times" the market's discard pile was empty, so you draw a card to create the discard pile. Is that allowed? or if the discard pile is empty you simply won't be able to activate the passive ability? if there is no discard pile yet you lose the chance to use the ability but can you throw away a card from the market anyway?

Thanks again!



That's allowed. As the card says:

"You may throw away 1 card from the market deck once in your turn."

That's what he was doing when he created the discard pile.

He now has the option to use Good Old Times, but it is now a copy of whatever card he just discarded from the market.
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Tobias Lunte
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The rules have some clarification for copying right under the chameleon's description
Quote:
A passive chameleon card in your hand is an identical copy of one valid card for all purposes of play. If there is a valid card, you must copy it before using the chameleon card. If there are no valid cards or the copying effect loops back to the original card, the chameleon card is considered to have its own set icon and value. The copying effect lasts the current turn or as long as the copied card’s effects last, whichever last longer.

So if there's nothing in the discard pile, you can't just put something in there, the copying just doesn't happen. The 'once-per-turn' is independent of that though, so you can use that to put something in the discard which will then be copied. (Edit: which is what happened here.)
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