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Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » General

Subject: Cardassian player board and advancements revealed rss

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Chris Schenck
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I got to play the Cardassian faction at Gen Con, and I snapped photos of the player board and all 15 advancements before the game started.

I thought you all might like a sneak peek.








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Jon Snow
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arrrh Nice work, Chris. It seems that the Cardassians follow the pattern of the other factions in that they have a special Strength and Weakness, and that the Strength is a special way of earning Culture. In this game, a larger Culture income can lead directly to a game victory, so keeping all the factions balanced in this characteristic is quite a design challenge, I imagine!
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Grish
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THanks for sharing!

I humbly request someone post the other factions' cards.
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William Towns
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Thanks for doing what I have been too busy/lazy to do! You also took better pictures than I did, so it's probably for the best anyway.
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Angelus Seniores
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some cardassian tech seem to raise questions;

-mutagenic weapons; it seems your hits MUST destroy nodes even if you roll enough hits to win the system?

-sensor ghosting & holo projections; you force a rival to reroll his hits, how would this affect a tech that hits automatically? would it only work if they effectively roll dice? im thinking of cult of kahless that can let klingons hit automatically.

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Chris Schenck
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Angelsenior wrote:
-mutagenic weapons; it seems your hits MUST destroy nodes even if you roll enough hits to win the system?

You don't have to use the card, but if you do then you do not roll any dice. So you either choose to roll like normal, or use the card "instead of rolling" to auto-kill nodes. Basically it's bombing run strictly meant to do damage rather than capture assets.

Here's the interesting part: The card says that these DO count as hits in the planetary invasion, so the number of ships you have in the invasion will determine whether the invasion is successful or not per the Planetary Invasion rules on page 19 of the rulebook. Sadly though, even if you 'win' using metagenic weapons, you've destroyed everything on the planet. So you'll get to put your lonely control node there for winning, but you won't inherit any resource nodes. You'll just end up wiping the planet clean and starting from scratch. Such a Pyrrhic victory is the hallmark of metagenic weapons.


Angelsenior wrote:
-sensor ghosting & holo projections; you force a rival to reroll his hits, how would this affect a tech that hits automatically? would it only work if they effectively roll dice? im thinking of cult of kahless that can let klingons hit automatically.

I suspect that since the card refers to RErolling, it would only apply to dice that have been rolled, rather than hits automatically scored.
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Angelus Seniores
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i dont think you put a control node, same when razing a planet as that is the result; if the control node is destroyed then you have to colonize the planet anew
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Chris Schenck
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That's quite possible. GF9 will have to say for sure, but the only reason I'm thinking you do get to play your control node is because of the planetary invasion rules on page 19.

Here's what we know, based on the wording of the card:

* Using the card does count as an invasion.
* You score a number of hits equal to the number of ships you use.

So imagine a situation where you're the Cardassians, and you're invading with a fleet of 5 ships against an enemy controlled planet with a full 3 resource nodes on it (a total of 4 nodes including the control node).

By using the metagenic weapons card, you will score exactly 5 hits against the 4 nodes on the planet. Here's what the rulebook says happens in that case:

Quote:
If the attacker scores more Hits than the Defender has Nodes, the Attacker has invaded with overwhelming force and has taken Control of the System and won the Combat. Place the Attacker's Control Node on the System, replacing the existing Control Node if the planet was Controlled by a rival.


So it seems like, regardless of the timing of whether the card effect triggers before the normal invasion rules, you get to place your control node on the planet. If there is no control node, you get to add yours. If there is still a control node, you get to replace it with yours.

In any case, I'm sure GF9 will weigh in, but it wouldn't surprise me if they hold off until the expansion has been officially released.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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the rule does say to replace an existing control node, but if you destroyed it you cant replace it.

by destroying the nodes, you destroyed the infrastructure and must rebuild it, at least one node should survive to be able to replace/put your control node.

i think the design idea behind the invasions is that a succesful invasion represents you intimidating the planet to convince it to surrender before actually firing at it so there is no actual damage yet to infrastructure, but since the mutagenic weapon effectively destroys the nodes, if you choose to use it the damage is unavoidable.
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Chris Schenck
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It says you replace it "IF" there is one present. Otherwise, you just add yours.

Nowhere does it say that destroying a control node means you have to re-colonize. In fact, when you invade a warp capable civilization (page 16 and page 20 of the rulebook), there is no control node present, and you still get to add yours after a successful invasion. So the infrastructure argument doesn't really agree with the rulebook.

For the record, I won't be shocked if GF9 agrees with your interpretation. But the rulebook seems to lean against it.
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Alex Almond
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The card description reads, hit and destroy a node.

So 3 ships vs a world with 4 nodes (command + 3) the 3 resource nodes would be destroyed and 3 hits applied.

Unless the destruction of a node removes a hit?
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Zenvious
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R2EQ wrote:
THanks for sharing!

I humbly request someone post the other factions' cards. :)


I second this! :D

Closest is what I've done myself which is here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1621009/publicly-known-info...
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Chris Schenck
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Darkmancer wrote:
So 3 ships vs a world with 4 nodes (command + 3) the 3 resource nodes would be destroyed and 3 hits applied.

Right, so if you use 3 ships against a full 4-node planet, you would leave just the enemy control node remaining. Assuming you survived the hits from the defender, you could then begin a normal new round of combat if you wished. But on this second round, you would not be able to use the metagenic weapons again, since it would be exhausted. So the second round would just be a normal combat round.
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Alex Almond
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cbs42 wrote:
Darkmancer wrote:
So 3 ships vs a world with 4 nodes (command + 3) the 3 resource nodes would be destroyed and 3 hits applied.

Right, so if you use 3 ships against a full 4-node planet, you would leave just the enemy control node remaining. Assuming you survived the hits from the defender, you could then begin a normal new round of combat if you wished. But on this second round, you would not be able to use the metagenic weapons again, since it would be exhausted. So the second round would just be a normal combat round.


I don't think so.

You would remove the 3 destroyed nodes. Now you also have rolled 3 success's vs the remaining command node.

The card states you automatically gain a success and destroy a node. Not automatically gain a success then destroy a node after the combat round.

It depends if the destroyed node still counts when you come to the results part of the round/or maybe the destroyed node invalidates one of your hits.

 
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Angelus Seniores
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its the same hit that destroys the node, it doesnt double your nr of hits.
3 ships only cause 3 hits and those same hits automatically result in the destruction of nodes.
you simply dont have the choice to hit without destroying a node ie you couldnt take over a planet without damage when using this tech.
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Chris Schenck
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Yeah, I see what you're saying Alex, and the wording is vague for sure. But I can't imagine that their intent is to effectively give you guaranteed hits with double-damage for all of your ships. It's powerful enough even without that interpretation.

Maybe they'll clean up some of the wording by the time this goes to production. We were playing pre-production copies at Gen Con.
 
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Alex Almond
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Angelsenior wrote:
its the same hit that destroys the node, it doesnt double your nr of hits.
- Correct
Angelsenior wrote:

3 ships only cause 3 hits and those same hits automatically result in the destruction of nodes.
- Correct
Angelsenior wrote:

you simply dont have the choice to hit without destroying a node ie you couldnt take over a planet without damage when using this tech.
- I never said you could.


3 ships = 3 hits + 3 destroyed nodes

vs

[Node][Node][Node][Node]

= 3 hits vs node.

You destroy the nodes before the end of the combat round, in the same way as you destroy ships before the end of a combat round using cult of kahless. The nodes will still fire back at you but they are already destroyed by the time you get to the round results.



Otherwise it would have been written: Instead of rolling dice destroy one node per ship. If no nodes remain the invasion is successful.
 
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Chris Schenck
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Just to clarify what you're saying with another example, Alex: Let's say it was 2 attacking ships vs a full 4 node planet (3 resource nodes + control node).

Are you saying that you would destroy 2 of those nodes, then have 2 hits remaining which would destroy the other 2 nodes as well?

That's the "double" damage that Angelus and I are talking about. I can't imagine that's the way this is intended to work.
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Alex Almond
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What do you expect from biological weapons?

"Very Simple, very effective"
"And needlessly bloody"
"Sounds like a Cardassian plan to me!"

I think that's exactly how it's meant to work, it guaranties the success of the invasion, but it also makes sure you wipe out any resource gains even from the annex advancement.

1 ship vs 2 nodes = nothing left
2 ships vs 3 or 4 nodes = nothing left

To win with Mutagenics and still be able to claim anything, you would have to attack with one ships (which would probably get destroyed), then attack with a different fleet to finish the job, which wouldn't be worth it considering the commands and risk of rolling badly.

The Klingons just endlessly spam ships, the Cardies pop up in random spots and burn everything.
 
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John Godwin
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I think you do everything you would do for a normal invasion round, except the attacking player just gets automatic hits. It's not first strike, it just replaces your roll.

So if you attack with 2 and they have 4:
You get 2 automatic hits and they roll 4 dice against you + you destroy an extra node.

If your ships survive, then you roll a normal invasion or stop as usual.
 
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My main question is if you have 4 ships and there are 4 nodes, does that destruction of 1 extra make it a successful invasion -1 node or is it still Total annihilation?
 
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Chris Schenck
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Well I guess the key takeaway here is that this card needs official clarification!
laugh

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Matt Steski
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R2EQ wrote:
THanks for sharing!

I humbly request someone post the other factions' cards.




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Grish
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You da man Matt! Thank You
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Alex Almond
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Thanks - that's great!

Does anyone else see the Klingon Advancement Invasion abuse?

 
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