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Giga-Robo!» Forums » Rules

Subject: Attack Timing Structure rss

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Nate Parkes
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Please note: This post is going to get into really crunchy and nitpicky gameplay structures which won't have any impact on the vast majority of casual games. But because I think Giga-Robo could be a great tournament game, I want to make sure these things are really clear, so when things get rules-lawyery, there's already law in the books.

I've been trying to really wrap my head around the timing structure of attacks, so I can understand when and how instants interact.

Quote:
Page 5, 3: You may pay for and play any 1 Attack Card, or up to 3 Attack Cards featuring the Combo icon simultaneously, then select a target (an opponent, Structure, or Static Barrier) within the attack’s range.


Quote:
Page 5, 3IV: Declare the Attack to your opponent and show them the Attack Card you have selected.


Quote:
Page 5, 3V: Pay the cards cost in Fighting Spirit—adjust the Tracking cubes positions on your Fighting Spirit track to match your new amount of Fighting Spirit.


It's not clear to me the exact order things happen.

3I suggests you pay for the card(s), then select a target within range.

3IV-V suggests you declare the attack to your opponent and show them the attack card you've selected, then pay for the cards.

Also, the rules allow you to play an instant before or after any action, but it's not clear to me which of these steps constitutes an action.

Here's my attempt at synthesizing an "Attack Timing Flow." Hopefully someone can correct anything that's wrong.

EDIT: Revised the flow based on the action definitions provided in the reply below, added instant cycle points.

Attack
1) Declare target, show the attack card(s) to your opponent
2) Play and pay for the attack card(s)
2b) Instant Cycle Window
3) Opponent may play and pay for a counterattack (no declaration/show card step needed)
3b) Instant Cycle Window (if counterattack was played)
4) Determine Cover and Combat Advantage, assemble Attack Dice Pool(s)
5) Attack chooses how much power to spend to add Power Dice
5b) Instant Cycle Window (if power was spent)
6) Defender chooses how much power to spend to add Power Dice
6b) Instant Cycle Window (if power was spent)
7) Roll
7b) Instant Cycle Window
8) Resolve dice results, determine successes
9) Resolve successful attack card text (including collisions)
10) Inflict successful attack card printed damage
11) Check range for next combo card (if any). If there's a combo card with a valid range, repeat 9-11.
12) Place card(s) in cool-down
13) If a player suffered attack damage, gain Rage or Power


I think the intent is that you can play an instant before or after any of these steps, but once you've moved on to the next step, the window for using instants to modify the previous step is closed.

For example, Azyn "Tumult Wave! Your opponent must re-roll their Attack Roll" would have to be played immediately step 7 (Roll). But he couldn't use it after Step 10, when damage had just been dealt, to "rewind" back to step 7.

But I'm not sure about the limits of instants that affect range.

For example, let's say Chogoking has Chogoking Sabre activated.

He declares Azyn as his target and shows his opponent "Razing Bolt!" (step 1). Then he plays and pays 10 sirit for Razing Bolt! (Step 2). Azyn chooses to defend, and declines to play a counterattack (Step 3). There's no cover or combat advantage (step 4), but Chogoking really needs this to land so he spends 2 power to add to power dice to the roll (step 5). Azyn chooses to spend no power on power dice (step 6). Both players roll (step 7), and Chogoking determines that he has 3 successes (step 8).

Then, after step 8, Ayzn plays "Blade Breaker" (Perform a Recovery Roll. On a success, Deactivate 1 of your opponent's Cards or Abilities.) and succeeds on the recovery roll, deactivating the Chogoking Sabre.

Azyn is now outside of the maximum range of Chogoking's attack. Does the attack just fizzle?

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Oblivion Doll
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Quote 1 states that you both pay for and play cards, not the order in which those events occur. By placing "pay for" before "play", it can be taken to imply - in the absence of clarification to the contrary - that you pay first. This quote comes from the header section of step 3, not from one of the itemised and ordered sub-sections defining how events play out.

The other 2 quotes are from the ordered sub-sections, and clearly state that you declare your attack before paying for it.

This order of actions also ties in with abilities which modify the costs of attacks being playable before those attacks are paid for, but after they've been declared.
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Ethan Krindle
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The entire rulebook section on attacking needs a bit of a rewrite to make it clear exactly when things happen and what the windows for certain responses are.

The rulebook defines an "action" on page 4. The main purpose of this keyword seems to be to denote points at which you can respond with an instant.* The four "actions" are: playing a card, moving your robot, rolling dice, or spending power tokens. Page 5 clarifies than an instant can be played "before an action, after declaring an action, after an action resolves, or in response to your opponent's actions."

To me, this reads like you can play instants before, after, or just after declaring your own actions, but an opponent can only play an instant just after you declare/perform the action (it's a little unclear which).

So based on your "attack timing flow" above, the "response points" at which an opponent could play an instant in response to your attack would be: 2 (because a card was played), 5 (if any power tokens are spent for power dice), 7 (dice have been rolled), and after any instant you play (because a card was played). The "response points" at which you could play an instant in repsonse to your opponent would be: 3 (if opponent plays a counterattack), 6 (if any tokens are spent for power dice), or 7 (dice have been rolled), and after any instant they play (because a card was played). You could also play instants before or just after declaring any of your actions.

It's possible that the rules need a specific, known point at which targeting is checked and "locked in". Instants played after this point that affect range are assumed to occur "after" the attack hits them since they've already been successfully targeted. Not doing this could put a major "chilling effect" on the use of power dice, since a canny opponent could always wait for an opponent to commit all of their power tokens into their "big hit" (or indeed, wait to see how the die roll turns out) and then play an instant that retroactively takes them outside the attack's range. On the other hand, instants are supposed to be powerful effects so maybe this was intentional.

*I have suggested to CD in an e-mail that they use a different word than "Action", because "Action" in board games usually refers to a specific gameplay option you select, not something incidental to performing it like "rolling dice".
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Nate Parkes
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Azilut wrote:
The rulebook defines an "action" on page 4. The main purpose of this keyword seems to be to denote points at which you can respond with an instant.* The four "actions" are: playing a card, moving your robot, rolling dice, or spending power tokens. Page 5 clarifies than an instant can be played "before an action, after declaring an action, after an action resolves, or in response to your opponent's actions."


Thanks for pointing this out; I'm embarrassed I missed it.

Quote:
It's possible that the rules need a specific, known point at which targeting is checked and "locked in". Instants played after this point that affect range are assumed to occur "after" the attack hits them since they've already been successfully targeted. Not doing this could put a major "chilling effect" on the use of power dice, since a canny opponent could always wait for an opponent to commit all of their power tokens into their "big hit" (or indeed, wait to see how the die roll turns out) and then play an instant that retroactively takes them outside the attack's range. On the other hand, instants are supposed to be powerful effects so maybe this was intentional.


Yep, you've articulated my thoughts exactly.
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Alex Cheng
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We're revising the entire section for clarification. Specifically we've already added a section defining an Instant Cycle window after an attack has been confirmed as successful but before damage is inflicted, where you reconfirm if the attack is legal, so it's clearer that you can time things out to bait your opponent into spending dice. It also clarifies the last opportunity for re-roll Instants for an Attack Roll.

We also removed "Rolling Dice" as an action, since it's really the resolution of a card or ability, and is thus redundant for the Instant Cycle.

Also a billion other things. SO MANY THINGS. But the current language definitely has too much wiggle room.
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