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Subject: Essen SPIEL 2016 no shipping math trade discussion thread rss

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Benjamin Pachner
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This is the discussion thread for the no shipping math trade for visitors of the Internationale Spieltage SPIEL'16 (13.10.2016 - 16.10.2016) in Essen.

Please use this thread for all non item-specific discussions as well as for general questions, suggestions, comments and chit-chat.

The trade list including all the rules can be found here:
Essen SPIEL 2016 no shipping math trade

There is a request list where you can add games that you would like to see offered in this trade:
Essen SPIEL 2016 no shipping math trade request list

If you don't want to keep up with this discussion thread, please subscribe to the announcement thread in order not to miss any important information:
Essen SPIEL 2016 no shipping math trade announcement thread

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Benjamin Pachner
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The rules are mostly the same as last year. You should still read the complete set of rules.

What changed compared to last year?

- The item submission and want list submission deadlines do not come with a specific time this year. Both deadlines are set to midnight Saturday/Sunday (CEST) and their corresponding time frames will end at some time on those Sundays. This may be before breakfast or after dinner - I can't plan ahead for a more detailed schedule since I will be on a business trip. Have your item submissions and want list submissions ready before the deadline displayed in the OLWLG and then have a little patience :)

- There is no item limit per user but keep in mind that you need to be able to bring all your traded items to SPIEL'16 and possibly carry them around over significant distances.

- Added the new regulations for cash value trades requiring 3% sales commission fee. For details see Cash Value Trades in Math Trades.

- Most importantly: We will have a new meeting place this year!

The new meeting place is in front of hall 3 next to Entrance West (right hand of the entrance area when approaching the entrance from the outside).

The new meeting place comes with several advantages:
- It is approved by the Friedhelm Merz Verlag (the organizer of SPIEL'16) and Messe Essen (in charge of the buildings and security). They know about our meeting and can plan for it.
- It is easier to reach. No need to carry the items all the way through the crowded halls and back. One could even participate without having a ticket for SPIEL.
- There is a roofed veranda along the building that provides enough space to support at least double the amount of people we were last year. The area is virtually not restricted in size. We will once again have a chance to move about and actually find our trade partners instead of being stuck in a tiny area.

There is also a downside to the new location:
- The area is roofed but still outside. Wear suitable clothes and protect your games from rain and moisture. Since it may get chilly in October in Germany, please be on time for the meetings before your trade partners turn into icicles.

Why the location change?

Those who did attend the meeting last year know that meeting in the Galeria again is not an option. Our trade meeting crowd has simply become too large to gather anywhere in-between exhibitor booths. We started out years ago as a peculiar phenomenon only observed by a few random bystanders but quickly grew into becoming a regular annoyance to the average visitor as well as to the exhibitors nearby. Last year, finally, we clearly exceeded "annoyance" and approached "safety concern". Fortunately, the people from Messe Essen were very helpful. They made sure that a free path for the regular visitors stayed clear and they even opened the gate to the outside when the number of traders became too large. After that, we all agreed that we needed to find a new location for 2016. I talked to the people from Friedhelm Merz Verlag and we think that this is the best solution. Remember that in the end we don't want to cause any trouble to our most beloved event of the year and the organizers don't want to alienate a major portion of their most loyal visitors (it's people like us who each spend hundreds of Euros at SPIEL each year).

Our new meeting place in pictures:



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Karsten
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Whooo, you're early with this one, Benjamin!

And I'm liking the new 2f) rule! thumbsup
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Tobias Lunte
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Is the first part of rule 8b) ("The BGG Trade Manager shall be used for the trade transactions.") new this year? I don't remember it (though I wasn't matched with anyone, so maybe that's why).

In any case, I must say I'm not sure what I would have to do at that point, partially because I've never used the Trade Manager before. I thought we would just exchange the games at Essen according to the TradeMaximizer's results. Maybe someone could explain this part?
 
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Benjamin Pachner
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A skinned math nerd wrote:
Whooo, you're early with this one, Benjamin!

It's actually later than last year, the 2015 trade started on August 15th. But SPIEL was a week later last year, so it's about the same. We will finish earlier this year to give people more time for travel preparations.

A skinned math nerd wrote:
And I'm liking the new 2f) rule! thumbsup

That's the first thing that came to my mind when I thought about changing it
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Benjamin Pachner
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Tobl wrote:
Is the first part of rule 8b) ("The BGG Trade Manager shall be used for the trade transactions.") new this year? I don't remember it (though I wasn't matched with anyone, so maybe that's why).

In any case, I must say I'm not sure what I would have to do at that point, partially because I've never used the Trade Manager before. I thought we would just exchange the games at Essen according to the TradeMaximizer's results. Maybe someone could explain this part?

That rule has always been there. Since you speak German, I'll refer you to An introduction to Math Trades in German - check the last sections of the "How to" and FAQ parts for trade manager info (slightly outdated due to the new game page design).

The OLWLG will also provide you with direct links to the BGG trade manager on your trade results page. This makes setting up trade easy.

It's basically just a system to keep track of everything (and get trade rating points).
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Carsten Stürmer
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cuazzel wrote:
[q="A skinned math nerd"]Whooo, you're early with this one, Benjamin!

It's actually later than last year, the 2015 trade started on August 15th. But SPIEL was a week later last year, so it's about the same. We will finish earlier this year to give people more time for travel preparations.

whistle whistle Ähm, Spiel2015 was 5 days earlier then Spiel2016 this year. whistle whistle
2015 8.-11.
2016 13.-16.

So I'd agree with Karsten that you are a tiny little bit earlier this year...

 
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Yorick Heijink
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cuazzel wrote:
Tobl wrote:
Is the first part of rule 8b) ("The BGG Trade Manager shall be used for the trade transactions.") new this year? I don't remember it (though I wasn't matched with anyone, so maybe that's why).

In any case, I must say I'm not sure what I would have to do at that point, partially because I've never used the Trade Manager before. I thought we would just exchange the games at Essen according to the TradeMaximizer's results. Maybe someone could explain this part?

That rule has always been there. Since you speak German, I'll refer you to An introduction to Math Trades in German - check the last sections of the "How to" and FAQ parts for trade manager info (slightly outdated due to the new game page design).

The OLWLG will also provide you with direct links to the BGG trade manager on your trade results page. This makes setting up trade easy.

It's basically just a system to keep track of everything (and get trade rating points).

This is also relevant to me. Is it neccessary to mark games as 'for trade' to get matches? I've been browsing the wiki but haven't been able to find an answer to this particular question.
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Christian Gienger
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Yes, you can't add items to a trade that the sending person hasn't marked as for trade.
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Yorick Heijink
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Locu wrote:
Yes, you can't add items to a trade that the sending person hasn't marked as for trade.

Cool, I'll be sure to have all that in order this year!
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Benjamin Pachner
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panagaeus wrote:
:whistle: :whistle: Ähm, Spiel2015 was 5 days earlier then Spiel2016 this year. :whistle: :whistle:

That's what I meant, must have mixed it up while typing. SPIEL'15 started 5 days earlier, the Math Trade started 3 days earlier so it's about the same as last year :)
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Benjamin Pachner
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Locu wrote:
Yes, you can't add items to a trade that the sending person hasn't marked as for trade.

Just to avoid confusion for new traders: This is about the BGG Trade Manager that comes into play when we know the final results of the Math Trade. The Math Trade itself doesn't care about your "For Trade" settings.

To see how it works, click here to propose a trade with me. On the following screen you will see that on my side you can only select Outside the Scope of BGG since this is the only item I constantly keep marked as "For Trade". On your side it will display whatever you have marked "For Trade" in your collection. BTW, the above link is the same the OLWLG will provide for your trade partners when the results are posted.
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Tobias Lunte
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cuazzel wrote:
Locu wrote:
Yes, you can't add items to a trade that the sending person hasn't marked as for trade.

Just to avoid confusion for new traders: This is about the BGG Trade Manager that comes into play when we know the final results of the Math Trade. The Math Trade itself doesn't care about your "For Trade" settings.

To see how it works, click here to propose a trade with me. On the following screen you will see that on my side you can only select Outside the Scope of BGG since this is the only item I constantly keep marked as "For Trade". On your side it will display whatever you have marked "For Trade" in your collection. BTW, the above link is the same the OLWLG will provide for your trade partners when the results are posted.


If I understand correctly, we would then propose a trade where we only send our game without receiving anything from that person, or, only get a game without sending to that person (since we won't be sending to and receiving from the same person)?
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Yuliyan Kalaydzhiev
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This is correct. For every game you give away and for every game you receive you will create separate one-sided trades with the respective person, meaning a game swapped for nothing.

In the off-chance, that you receive from and give away to the same person, you can of course bundle the trades into one.

Tobl wrote:
cuazzel wrote:
Locu wrote:
Yes, you can't add items to a trade that the sending person hasn't marked as for trade.

Just to avoid confusion for new traders: This is about the BGG Trade Manager that comes into play when we know the final results of the Math Trade. The Math Trade itself doesn't care about your "For Trade" settings.

To see how it works, click here to propose a trade with me. On the following screen you will see that on my side you can only select Outside the Scope of BGG since this is the only item I constantly keep marked as "For Trade". On your side it will display whatever you have marked "For Trade" in your collection. BTW, the above link is the same the OLWLG will provide for your trade partners when the results are posted.


If I understand correctly, we would then propose a trade where we only send our game without receiving anything from that person, or, only get a game without sending to that person (since we won't be sending to and receiving from the same person)?
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Martin Looy
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And why do we have to do this? Sounds like a lot of unnecessary administration.
 
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P. oeppel
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Duikertje1990 wrote:
And why do we have to do this? Sounds like a lot of unnecessary administration.


I guess because you can then rate your trade partner, giving future trade partners better insight.
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Karsten
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I think it is quite essential to be able to look up this information easily, too. Searching through the Geekmail Inbox has never been very sophisticated. I'm asking for trade requests on BGG whenever possible.
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Yoann
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Another topic not related to Trade Manager : are we able to make offer (cash or direct trade) to an user who proposed a game we would like in our collection ?

 
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francesco silvestri
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I understood everything about math trade,

I think that is simple create two one-side proposto of trade for Every item that i change.

But i haven't understood if IT is necessary mark "for trade" Every Game that i propose in math trade, and (if i change money With a game) i have to mark "for trade" an item "Outside the scope of bgg".

Thanks to everyone for your help,

Gufo

BGOrion wrote:
This is correct. For every game you give away and for every game you receive you will create separate one-sided trades with the respective person, meaning a game swapped for nothing.

In the off-chance, that you receive from and give away to the same person, you can of course bundle the trades into one.

Tobl wrote:
cuazzel wrote:
Locu wrote:
Yes, you can't add items to a trade that the sending person hasn't marked as for trade.

Just to avoid confusion for new traders: This is about the BGG Trade Manager that comes into play when we know the final results of the Math Trade. The Math Trade itself doesn't care about your "For Trade" settings.

To see how it works, click here to propose a trade with me. On the following screen you will see that on my side you can only select Outside the Scope of BGG since this is the only item I constantly keep marked as "For Trade". On your side it will display whatever you have marked "For Trade" in your collection. BTW, the above link is the same the OLWLG will provide for your trade partners when the results are posted.


If I understand correctly, we would then propose a trade where we only send our game without receiving anything from that person, or, only get a game without sending to that person (since we won't be sending to and receiving from the same person)?
 
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Benjamin Pachner
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Etherion wrote:
Another topic not related to Trade Manager : are we able to make offer (cash or direct trade) to an user who proposed a game we would like in our collection ?

There are no means to prevent it anyway, so go ahead :)
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Benjamin Pachner
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gufotriste wrote:
But i haven't understood if IT is necessary mark "for trade" Every Game that i propose in math trade,

No you don't, see 7 posts above yours:

cuazzel wrote:
Just to avoid confusion for new traders: This is about the BGG Trade Manager that comes into play when we know the final results of the Math Trade. The Math Trade itself doesn't care about your "For Trade" settings.



gufotriste wrote:
and (if i change money With a game) i have to mark "for trade" an item "Outside the scope of bgg".

Cash trades go through the GeekMarket instead of the trade manager, see Cash Value Trades in Math Trades.
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francesco silvestri
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Perfect, thanks!
 
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Matias Saravia
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Sorry for this rookie question but, the main post says that the math trade ends on 17.09.2016
What does that exactly means, when will the results be ready?

I ask this because I'm from Argentina and I'll flying to Europe on 22.09.2016 so I want to be sure to know on time if I should pack the things that I'll be offering or not.
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Tobias Lunte
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Mos Blues wrote:
Sorry for this rookie question but, the main post says that the math trade ends on 17.09.2016
What does that exactly means, when will the results be ready?

I ask this because I'm from Argentina and I'll flying to Europe on 22.09.2016 so I want to be sure to know on time if I should pack the things that I'll be offering or not.


Benjamin will close the wantlist acceptance some time on the 17th. At that point, no more wantlists can be sent in and the Trade Maximizer will build a list of preliminary results that Benjamin posts shortly thereafter. When the results are up, everyone has 24h to register complaints if there is some error in the results. (note that only problems caused by the organizer or the software count, if someone made a mistake themselves they'll have to live with it). If no one has any valid complaints, the results will be announced as final after 24h and everyone can set up their bgg trades and geekmarket listings.

Last year, the final results were up within 25 hours of the official submission period end. So you'll have to hurry with setting up your trades after the results are confirmed, but you should definitely have enough time before the 22nd.
Maybe write as part of your item description that trade partners should be able to set up the trades quickly after the results are announced.
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Matias Saravia
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Tobl wrote:
Benjamin will close the wantlist acceptance some time on the 17th. At that point, no more wantlists can be sent in and the Trade Maximizer will build a list of preliminary results that Benjamin posts shortly thereafter. When the results are up, everyone has 24h to register complaints if there is some error in the results. (note that only problems caused by the organizer or the software count, if someone made a mistake themselves they'll have to live with it). If no one has any valid complaints, the results will be announced as final after 24h and everyone can set up their bgg trades and geekmarket listings.

Last year, the final results were up within 25 hours of the official submission period end. So you'll have to hurry with setting up your trades after the results are confirmed, but you should definitely have enough time before the 22nd.
Maybe write as part of your item description that trade partners should be able to set up the trades quickly after the results are announced.


Thank you very much for your answers.
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