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Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Details on the rules for deals rss

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SpaghettiToastBook
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Is two players giving each other cosmic deck attack 10s and nothing else a legal deal? What if one is from the cosmic deck and the other is from the reward deck?

As part of a deal, can Zombie and Tyrant free ships belonging to players not involved in the deal?

Is Zombie or Tyrant freeing ships and nothing else a legal deal?
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This is not my user name.
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SpaghettiToastBook wrote:
Is two players giving each other cosmic deck attack 10s and nothing else a legal deal?

A wasted opportunity, but perfectly legal.

Quote:
What if one is from the cosmic deck and the other is from the reward deck?

Again, a 99% wasted opportunity, but why wouldn't it be legal?

A perfectly legal deal would be, "A random card from my hand for a random card from your hand." By chance, those two cards could have the same value, but it's still a legal deal. So it should still be a legal deal if they want to exchange cards of the same value deliberately. Though I can't think of a reason why they'd do that.

Quote:
As part of a deal, can Zombie and Tyrant free ships belonging to players not involved in the deal?

No. Because the freed ships go to the other player, and there's no defined way for these powers to give ships of a different color to a player. There could theoretically be a future alien that grants "captive" ships from the warp as part of a deal (or even not as part of a deal) - taking blue ships from the warp and giving them to the yellow player - but the power of that alien would have to describe how those captured ships are used/owned/manipulated by the receiving player.

Quote:
Is Zombie or Tyrant freeing ships and nothing else a legal deal?

Sure, why not?
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SpaghettiToastBook
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
SpaghettiToastBook wrote:
Is two players giving each other cosmic deck attack 10s and nothing else a legal deal?

A wasted opportunity, but perfectly legal.

The issue I have with this is that it's the same as doing nothing, which isn't.

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What if one is from the cosmic deck and the other is from the reward deck?

Again, a 99% wasted opportunity, but why wouldn't it be legal?

Unlike the scenario in my previous question, I think this is legal because the cards are actually different.

Quote:
Quote:
As part of a deal, can Zombie and Tyrant free ships belonging to players not involved in the deal?

No. Because the freed ships go to the other player, and there's no defined way for these powers to give ships of a different color to a player. There could theoretically be a future alien that grants "captive" ships from the warp as part of a deal (or even not as part of a deal) - taking blue ships from the warp and giving them to the yellow player - but the power of that alien would have to describe how those captured ships are used/owned/manipulated by the receiving player.

Zombie's text says that the freed ships go the ships's owner, which is why I find it ambiguous. Tyrant's text doesn't say anything about what happens to the released ships, but I assume it's supposed to be like Zombie.

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Is Zombie or Tyrant freeing ships and nothing else a legal deal?

Sure, why not?

I agree, but the rulebook says "the players cannot agree to do nothing as a deal - either a card or a base must change hands for a deal to be successful", which could be read to mean every deal must involve colonies or cards.
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Ben Tinney
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Whyalla Jenkins
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The rules say something must be exchanged, that's it. Nowhere does it say that what is exchanged must be different
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Johann Gambolputty
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SpaghettiToastBook wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Is Zombie or Tyrant freeing ships and nothing else a legal deal?

Sure, why not?

I agree, but the rulebook says "the players cannot agree to do nothing as a deal - either a card or a base must change hands for a deal to be successful", which could be read to mean every deal must involve colonies or cards.


It's a house rule, but we ignore this in the case of aliens whose power allows them to offer alternate deals. Zombie and Tyrant are the only two this affects currently, but it's something that I think could be much more prevalent in the new expansion, with all the new alien tokens and essence cards in play.

So for example, I would allow Zombie to release Extortionist's ships in exchange for a promise to not be extorted next time Zombie draws cards. However, Dictator offering to grant Extortionist his choice of target for the same exchange would be against the rules, as no cards or colonies were exchanged and Dictator's power doesn't include the phrase "as part of a deal."
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SpaghettiToastBook wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
As part of a deal, can Zombie and Tyrant free ships belonging to players not involved in the deal?

No. Because the freed ships go to the other player, and there's no defined way for these powers to give ships of a different color to a player. There could theoretically be a future alien that grants "captive" ships from the warp as part of a deal (or even not as part of a deal) - taking blue ships from the warp and giving them to the yellow player - but the power of that alien would have to describe how those captured ships are used/owned/manipulated by the receiving player.

Zombie's text says that the freed ships go the ships's owner, which is why I find it ambiguous. Tyrant's text doesn't say anything about what happens to the released ships, but I assume it's supposed to be like Zombie.

It's not ambiguous, because there's only one other player involved in the deal. Al doesn't get anything when Bob and Carl make a deal.

Quote:
Quote:
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Is Zombie or Tyrant freeing ships and nothing else a legal deal?

Sure, why not?

I agree, but the rulebook says "the players cannot agree to do nothing as a deal - either a card or a base must change hands for a deal to be successful", which could be read to mean every deal must involve colonies or cards.

The rulebook says lots of things which are all overridden by the powers. Every power violates something in the rulebook. That's how the game works.
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Ed Vreeland
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SpaghettiToastBook wrote:
Phil Fleischmann wrote:
SpaghettiToastBook wrote:
Is two players giving each other cosmic deck attack 10s and nothing else a legal deal?

A wasted opportunity, but perfectly legal.

The issue I have with this is that it's the same as doing nothing, which isn't.


It's similar to doing nothing, but it isn't the same. If you did nothing then nothing happens and nobody gains anything. If both players agree to trade specific valued cards then they and everyone at the table know one card in each player's hand. Knowing that two of your opponents have 10's when you're sitting on an 11 is VERY valuable.
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