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Subject: Multiple Rules Clarifications (Mostly with Timing) rss

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Adam K
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Hey everyone,

Thiago was kind enough to answer a few questions for me, so I thought I would share the responses with everyone as you may have encountered many of the same issues.

===08/18/16==========================================================
Q: When the Sin plays a card at the start of a Hero's turn but the Hero has an upgrade card that activates at the start of their turn, which takes affect first or do they happen simultaneously?

A: In case of such a timing conflict, the precedence goes to the Hero player.
---
Q: When a fight starts, does the Sin player play a Sin card before or after the Hero chooses to take corruption?

A: It can be before or after, but the Hero can change their mind about taking corruption or not until the moment they roll the dice.
---
Q: The rules say that you have to determine who the first Hero is at the start of a round. However, it doesn't say anything about choosing the second Hero. In the case of someone playing multiple Heroes, when does the order have to be decided?

A: All Heroes should always be positioned in a circle, no matter how many players are controlling them, so the clockwise order is always clear. [i.e. At the start of the game, not the start of the round]
---
Q: Normally after a Hero's death there can be no Sin reaction because their turn never ended. However, what happens when a Hero ends their turn and then dies due to the affects of a "Dark Past" card?

A: If the Hero dies, there’s no Reaction to their turn.

===08/22/16==========================================================
Q: Does the term "Monster" refer to all figures controlled by the Sin player? (i.e. Acolytes, Abominations, Controller, Avatar, Hell Club, etc.)

A: Yes, all figures controlled by the Sin player are Monsters.
---
Q: Does the "Hate!" sin card get discarded at the end of the round? Most people seem to do this, but it doesn't specifically say to.

A: Yes, Hate! Only stays in play for one round.
---
Q: During "Haven's Last Stand" if 4 monsters aren't alive to be marked does the Sin miss out on marking some, or can they mark the next X that are summoned?

A: The Sin player can only mark Monsters that are on the board. If there are fewer than necessary, then fewer will be marked.
---
Q: The "Ice Blade" upgrade card states "+1 Dice and +1 Shield in Fights in your Space". Does this mean ALL fights in your space? (i.e. Do your teammates get to take advantage of this too?)

A: No, it’s only for fights where you are the active hero.
---
Q: Since the fire/corruption tokens take place when entering/leaving a space, this leads to a number of timing questions. Mainly, these relate to which resolves first: the entering/leaving or the damaging? Personally, we've been using AQ's "attempting" terminology. (i.e. Hero is attempting to leave the space, roll for damage) Case in point: A hero with a cop and 4 wounds exits a district with a fire in it into a street space. He rolls for the fire and dies. Which space does the cop go? The district or the street?

A: You are correct in the timing. Damage is dealt in the Space where the token/monster is. So if you die when leaving the Police Station, you die in the Police Station.

===09/02/16==========================================================
Q: Corrupted Nuns can place Corruption tokens over City Actions to block them out. Do these tokens affect Heroes who enter/exit the District, or do they only affect Heroes who want to cleanse and use that City Action?

A: Corruption tokens placed over the City Action work just like a Corruption token placed on the District itself, with the only difference that they block that City Action. Corruption is rolled only when you enter or exit that District.
---
Q: Can Manuela use her ability on a CA that is blocked by a Corruption token (e.g. via a 'Corrupted Nun') without cleansing it?

A: Manuela can use her ability on a District that has a City Action covered by a Corruption token, though like all Heroes she does not get that specific City Action that is hidden by the token.
---
Q: When a Hero dies and then the new Hero picks out a new set of upgrade cards does that trigger Gluttony's ability to gain Sin cards whenever a Hero gains an Upgrade card?

A: No, Gluttony is not triggered in that case, since no new cards are being gained, they’re just being moved around.
---
Q: In the story "Rise of the Hell Club", it says "Special rule: Summon from Hell club deck". On this story only, once killed, do these club members still get removed permanently from the game, or do they get returned to the deck?

A: In this story Hell Club members are not removed permanently from the game, they may be re-summoned later on.
---
Q: Are the marks placed by using Keaunu's ability permanent (and cumulative) on each hero, or do his marks get removed at the end of each round?

A: Marks are not cumulative (a Hero is either marked or he isn’t). These marks stay for the whole game.
---
Q: Pride Sin Card: "Damned if You Do" - If the target hero does not have any Upgrades, can the hero choose the "upgrade card" route (so that nothing happens) or must they choose to take 2 Wounds?

A: You cannot choose an option that is not available to you. So if you have no upgrades for the Sin to flip down, you must take 2 wounds. …damned if you don’t!
---
Q: In the story "Into the Breach", if during a fight a Hero posessing the Innocent takes corruption voluntarily, which puts them at maximum corruption, would the Innocent die before or after the fight occurred?

A: If a Hero gains Corruption during the fight, they will only destroy the Innocent after the fight is over.
---
Q: Can the Controller be re-summoned once killed? Does he actually do anything other than being slightly stronger than the smaller monsters?

A: Yes, the Controller can be re-summoned once killed. It’s stronger than smaller monsters and has a few special interactions with Sin cards.
---
From reading some of the other questions in the community, it looks like the term "City Action" needs clarified. There are three different terms actually:
1) City Action Token -> The token each Hero has that gets to be placed on the board once per round.
2) City Action Slot -> The octagonal space in each District where the Hero physically places the "City Action Token"
3) City Action -> The circular space(s) in each district that give the Heroes something:
-> Hospital - Heals a Wound
-> Museum - Heals a Corruption
-> RavenCorp Tower - Gives an Upgrade card
-> Police Station - Controls the Orbital Strike token

Other Terms:
Monster -> All figures controlled by the Sin player
Turn -> The Hero’s Turn and the Sin’s Reaction to it

Cheers,
-DW
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Oden Dee
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Cheers, very nice, its important to know exactly how the designer(s) intended the rules to be, considering they have played 100 times to balance around them.

So equipment before Sin card.
What about map tokens (fire/corruption) vs abilities/equipment?

Rules get strange when you are the last player in a round and are the only one with (or wants to use) an extra turn token.
Rule 1: "Heroes can only take a single Turn at a time"
Rule 2: "If a Hero still has any active Turn tokens available, he must flip it and take a Turn"
Does rule 2 trump rule 1 (ie. 2nd turn you used extra turn token before turn token)? Is this the only way you can take two turns in a row?
Maybe multiple turns in a row are allowed when no one else has active turn tokens.
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Adam K
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In general, the feeling I get is that the odds are already stacked against the heroes, so they are the ones who get the benefit of the doubt in weird situations.

Personally, I also insert the word "attempting" (like in Arcadia Quest) whenever movement is concerned. For example: "I'm attempting to leave this space with a fire token, roll to see if I take fire damage." It seems to clear up a lot of these movement-related questions.


Warlock00 wrote:

Rules get strange when you are the last player in a round and are the only one with (or wants to use) an extra turn token.
Rule 1: "Heroes can only take a single Turn at a time"
Rule 2: "If a Hero still has any active Turn tokens available, he must flip it and take a Turn"
Does rule 2 trump rule 1 (ie. 2nd turn you used extra turn token before turn token)? Is this the only way you can take two turns in a row?
Maybe multiple turns in a row are allowed when no one else has active turn tokens.


The clarification here is the distinction between "Turn Tokens" and "Extra Turn Tokens". What the rules are saying is that you can't "pass" your turn and come back later. You also can't deprive the Sin player the opportunity to react to your turn.

If one of your two turn tokens are unused, and it's your turn, you must activate it. However, your character doesn't have to physically do anything. They can stand still and say "end turn".

If your hero has multiple "Extra Turn Tokens" at the end of the round, they can use any/all of them, or save them for the next round.
 
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Jaime Perron
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Reading through the rules I could not find this answer.

When does the Sin Avatar get played to the board?
You know, the big cool piece.
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J M
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It's on the mission boards.
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Adam K
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egnever wrote:
Reading through the rules I could not find this answer.

When does the Sin Avatar get played to the board?
You know, the big cool piece.


We had a very similar issue. On the story boards it says "Summmon the Avatar!", but if you look at the rules it's very hard to find how this is supposed to take place. (especially if you tried to find it looking for "Avatar" in the index) We eventually did find it under the Story Boards -> Events section which says "...before moving on to the next Mission, the Special Event indicated must be performed. This might involve Summoning the Avatar figure onto the board ... normal summoning rules are followed ..."
 
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Adam K
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First post updated with new questions and answers
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Kevin Rush
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If you edit again, van you put a line break indicating the newly updated rules so we can easily pick-up where the new update is? Thanks for the awesome FAQ stuff!
 
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Atul Deshpande
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That's really cool!
You're like Whoopie Goldberg from Ghost!
 
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Adam K
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Krushhhhh wrote:
If you edit again, van you put a line break indicating the newly updated rules so we can easily pick-up where the new update is?


Done!
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Atul Deshpande
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Do you take requests for rule clarification? Maybe you already know this, but can you verify that this is how the Corrupted Nuns effect should work?
I think the cleanest read is that its a corruption token in the area that blocks the city icon while it's there. It's the only reading that doesn't require any implicit unique rules. It just does what it says.
 
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Adam K
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Sure, I will add that to the next batch.

If I remember correctly, when I played at CMON Expo, Thiago placed the corruption token on the "City Action" space just like a hero would place their token. So, this space is now blocked and heroes can't use their city action until after cleansing. For all other purposes it was just another corruption token just like anywhere else.
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Dan Harrow
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Another outstanding question that could use Thiago's unique perspective is:

Pride Sin Card: Damned if You Do - If the target hero does not have any Upgrades, can the hero choose the second option (the Sin player flips one of the Hero's upgrade cards), or must he choose to take 2 Wounds?

Damned If You Do Discussion Thread

Thanks, DW!
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Atul Deshpande
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Dan, for what it's worth, I agree with your assessment that the card is supposed to offer two options to the hero. If the hero doesn't want to take wounds, the sins player can flip any upgrade he likes. If there's no upgrade, the sins player wastes the card, and shouldn't have played the card in the first place.
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Atul Deshpande
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DeathWarden wrote:
Q: During "Haven's Last Stand" if 4 monsters aren't alive to be marked does the Sin miss out on marking some, or can they mark the next X that are summoned?

A: The Sin player can only mark Monsters that are on the board. If there are fewer than necessary, then fewer will be marked.


Does the same apply to Redemption tokens where the heroes need to clean four fire/corruption tokens?

Thanks.
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Vernon Piper
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DeathWarden wrote:

Q: During "Haven's Last Stand" if 4 monsters aren't alive to be marked does the Sin miss out on marking some, or can they mark the next X that are summoned?

A: The Sin player can only mark Monsters that are on the board. If there are fewer than necessary, then fewer will be marked.


You summon BEFORE placing the marks, btw, at least the Avatar gets summoned. I read it as you don't/can't start the next objective until the next round starts. So you would be able to summon monsters and then mark them.
 
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Adam K
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akumavern wrote:
I read it as you don't/can't start the next objective until the next round starts. So you would be able to summon monsters and then mark them.


Actually, that's not true. The next objective/mission starts as soon as the prior one was accomplished.
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Vernon Piper
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DeathWarden wrote:
akumavern wrote:
I read it as you don't/can't start the next objective until the next round starts. So you would be able to summon monsters and then mark them.


Actually, that's not true. The next objective/mission starts as soon as the prior one was accomplished.


Quoting the back of the rule book Round Sequence:

Step 4: End of Round
Resolve End of Round Story tasks
Summon Monsters
Draw Extra Sin Cards
Reset Tokens

THEN

Step 1: Start of Round
Resolve Beginning of Round Story Tasks
Decide First Player

So, if you follow the Round Sequence rules, no, you don't start the next objective immediately.
 
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Kevin Rush
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akumavern wrote:
DeathWarden wrote:
akumavern wrote:
I read it as you don't/can't start the next objective until the next round starts. So you would be able to summon monsters and then mark them.


Actually, that's not true. The next objective/mission starts as soon as the prior one was accomplished.


Quoting the back of the rule book Round Sequence:

Step 4: End of Round
Resolve End of Round Story tasks
Summon Monsters
Draw Extra Sin Cards
Reset Tokens

THEN

Step 1: Start of Round
Resolve Beginning of Round Story Tasks
Decide First Player

So, if you follow the Round Sequence rules, no, you don't start the next objective immediately.

Umm... Maybe I am an idiot but I do not see anywhere in the round sequence stating anything about objectives period.
 
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Cameron Knees
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akumavern wrote:
DeathWarden wrote:
akumavern wrote:
I read it as you don't/can't start the next objective until the next round starts. So you would be able to summon monsters and then mark them.


Actually, that's not true. The next objective/mission starts as soon as the prior one was accomplished.


Quoting the back of the rule book Round Sequence:

Step 4: End of Round
Resolve End of Round Story tasks
Summon Monsters
Draw Extra Sin Cards
Reset Tokens

THEN

Step 1: Start of Round
Resolve Beginning of Round Story Tasks
Decide First Player

So, if you follow the Round Sequence rules, no, you don't start the next objective immediately.
yes you do. End of round and end of a mission objective are two different things.
 
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Richard Keene
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Has anyone found a reference to what happens if you are told to summon the Avatar/Traitor hero when there are no free nests? I’m specifically looking at “The Beast We Become” scenario. When it comes to marking monsters the answer is one less monster gets marked, but in this scenario if the Traitor can’t be summoned it would seem to imply the hero’s automatically win. There are also similar objective based around the Avatar.

Similarly, if you get a Hell Club monster, but can’t place it, is it just lost?
 
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Dan Harrow
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lordnine wrote:
Has anyone found a reference to what happens if you are told to summon the Avatar/Traitor hero when there are no free nests? I’m specifically looking at “The Beast We Become” scenario. When it comes to marking monsters the answer is one less monster gets marked, but in this scenario if the Traitor can’t be summoned it would seem to imply the hero’s automatically win. There are also similar objective based around the Avatar.

Similarly, if you get a Hell Club monster, but can’t place it, is it just lost?

I don't have the rules in front of me, but wasn't there something in there about if you couldn't place the avatar, HC, etc. on an open nest, then place it on any nest.

I'm pretty sure that the blocking nests thing only worked for the end-of-the-round re-summoning of dead monsters.
 
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Delta 5.56
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akumavern wrote:
DeathWarden wrote:
akumavern wrote:
I read it as you don't/can't start the next objective until the next round starts. So you would be able to summon monsters and then mark them.


Actually, that's not true. The next objective/mission starts as soon as the prior one was accomplished.


Quoting the back of the rule book Round Sequence:

Step 4: End of Round
Resolve End of Round Story tasks
Summon Monsters
Draw Extra Sin Cards
Reset Tokens

THEN

Step 1: Start of Round
Resolve Beginning of Round Story Tasks
Decide First Player

So, if you follow the Round Sequence rules, no, you don't start the next objective immediately.


Follow the Events sequence, not the round sequence in this case.

Page 20

EVENTS


At different points in each Story, there will be Special Events marked in the path between Missions. In these situations, after the previous Mission is accomplished, and before moving on to the next Mission, the Special Event indicated must be performed. This might involve Summoning the Avatar figure onto the board or other events.
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Richard Keene
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XeyneGaming wrote:
lordnine wrote:
Has anyone found a reference to what happens if you are told to summon the Avatar/Traitor hero when there are no free nests? I’m specifically looking at “The Beast We Become” scenario. When it comes to marking monsters the answer is one less monster gets marked, but in this scenario if the Traitor can’t be summoned it would seem to imply the hero’s automatically win. There are also similar objective based around the Avatar.

Similarly, if you get a Hell Club monster, but can’t place it, is it just lost?

I don't have the rules in front of me, but wasn't there something in there about if you couldn't place the avatar, HC, etc. on an open nest, then place it on any nest.

I'm pretty sure that the blocking nests thing only worked for the end-of-the-round re-summoning of dead monsters.

One of the other boards specifically says you can resummon the Avatar anywhere but this one does not. I fully admit this would only happen under rare circumstances but it seems like it could be more likely to occur with the Hell Club monsters.
 
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Albert
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lordnine wrote:
Has anyone found a reference to what happens if you are told to summon the Avatar/Traitor hero when there are no free nests? I’m specifically looking at “The Beast We Become” scenario. When it comes to marking monsters the answer is one less monster gets marked, but in this scenario if the Traitor can’t be summoned it would seem to imply the hero’s automatically win. There are also similar objective based around the Avatar.

Similarly, if you get a Hell Club monster, but can’t place it, is it just lost?


Page 20 (Reference for Mission Summoning Rules)
"if all Nest tokens are blocked by Monsters, the new figure is placed on any Nest token on the board"

Page 23 (Reference for Hell Club)
"If all Nest tokens are blocked by Monsters, the figure is placed in any Nest token"
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