$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 131.57

7,726 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
48.7% of Goal | left

Support:

Spyros
msg tools
So I have played the game a couple of times and I think I spotted the following common mistake made by people familiar with the original QMG:

The Athenian player Has a city, and hoplite at Athens, a trireme in the Saronic Gulf. He wants to muster a trireme in the Myrtoan Sea, and he considers this newly mustered trireme (in the Myrtoan Sea) to be in supply, because it is adjacent to the Saronic Gulf (which is adjacent to the hoplite/city of Athens, and thus it meets the supply line requirements), which is adjacent to their city of Athens (end of supply line).

But, having checked the example of page 16 (rulesbook), I understand that for a trireme to be in supply, the sea space where the trireme is located also has to be adjacent to a friendly hoplite, city, or bribery token. In other words, in the example stated above, the Athenian player is required to have a friendly hoplite/city/bribery token next to Myrtoan Sea (e.g. place a bribery token in Melos).

Furthermore, this will be required again in the next turn (i.e. next turn, the Saronic Gulf trireme will need to have a friendly hoplite/city/bribery token next to it for it to be in supply during the supply step).

Could you please confirm the sentence in bold letters?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benji
Switzerland
Gurmels
FR
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Triremes have nothing to do with supply lines, with the exeption of blocking enemy lines.

A sea space is part of a supply line (hence itself supplied) only if there is friendly land piece (including a coin) adjacent to it and the line (using armies, cities, coins and/or supplied sea spaces) can be traced to a friendly city. Building a trireme in a space that is only adjacent to another trireme is not possible.

Your "also" in the bold sentence is incorrect. Other triremes have no influence on the supply status of adjacent spaces.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikko Saari
Finland
flag msg tools
http://www.lautapeliopas.fi/ - the best Finnish board game resource!
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not sure what the original post read before the edits, but as far as I can tell it's correct now: the sea space where trireme is must be in supply for the trireme to be in supply. Isn't that correct?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benji
Switzerland
Gurmels
FR
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
msaari wrote:
I'm not sure what the original post read before the edits, but as far as I can tell it's correct now: the sea space where trireme is must be in supply for the trireme to be in supply. Isn't that correct?


Of course. But the question is about the conditions that let a sea space be in supply. Other triremes are not involved here. For a sea space to be supplied, it needs a land piece adjacent and a supply line to a friendly city. The first example (bulding a trireme adjacent to just another trireme) is wrong. The Myttoan sea is not in supply. Hence the underlined "also" in the bold sentence (it is still there) is wrong, if he meant both adjacency to another trireme and a land piece. The Myrtoan Sea would be supplied if it had a land piece adjacent, even without a trireme in the Saronic Gulf.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikko Saari
Finland
flag msg tools
http://www.lautapeliopas.fi/ - the best Finnish board game resource!
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
The edited post never mentions other triremes, that's why I was curious. The OP specifically says The Myrtoan Sea is not in supply, thus there needs to be a friendly city, hoplite or bribery token adjacent to The Myrtoan Sea.

It is not enough that the adjacent sea space is in supply, but also the sea space the trireme is located in needs to be in supply - that's what I thought the "also" refers to.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benji
Switzerland
Gurmels
FR
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Again. It depends on what "also" means.

The trireme in the Saronic Gulf is (still) part of the example, but it is actually irrelevant for tracing supply.

If he meant "also" the way you interpret it, then he would be right.

And you too
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spyros
msg tools
msaari wrote:
I'm not sure what the original post read before the edits


Same as now , just changed some words to bold font

msaari wrote:
I can tell it's correct: the sea space where trireme is must be in supply for the trireme to be in supply. Isn't that correct?


Benji68 wrote:
Building a trireme in a space that is only adjacent to another trireme is not possible.


Benji68 wrote:
then he would be right.

And you too


Thank you, so you both agree with the bold statement. That's what I wanted to check.

Benji68 wrote:

Your "also" in the bold sentence is incorrect. Other triremes have no influence on the supply status of adjacent spaces.


Benji68 wrote:
[q="msaari"]But the question is about the conditions that let a sea space be in supply. Other triremes are not involved here.


In fact you wanted to say that the bold sentence is correct. The question has nothing to do about other triremes (the Saronic Gulf one didn't have to exist there at all and the question would still be the same). The question is not about the conditions for a sea space to be in supply: it's about the conditions for a trireme to be in supply.


msaari wrote:
The post never mentions other triremes, that's why I was curious. The OP specifically says The Myrtoan Sea is not in supply, thus there needs to be a friendly city, hoplite or bribery token adjacent to The Myrtoan Sea.

It is not enough that the adjacent sea space is in supply, but also the sea space the trireme is located in needs to be in supply - that's what I thought the "also" refers to.


Exactly.

Thank you both for confirming, guys
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alec Usticke
United States
Peekskill
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Spyros_UCL wrote:
I think I spotted the following common mistake made by people familiar with the original QMG:


I would think people familiar with the original QMG would not be confused since, in that game, a navy requires a friendly adjacent army to be in supply.

Like navies in QMG, a trireme in VoD cannot be in supply when its only adjacent piece is another trireme.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spyros
msg tools
austicke wrote:
Spyros_UCL wrote:
I think I spotted the following common mistake made by people familiar with the original QMG:


I would think people familiar with the original QMG would not be confused since, in that game, a navy requires a friendly adjacent army to be in supply.

Like navies in QMG, a trireme in VoD cannot be in supply when its only adjacent piece is another trireme.


But they were confused.
In VoD you can have an Athenian Hoplite in Cythera and he can still be in supply even if the Myrtoan Sea and the Saronic Gulf are empty. In QMG this wouldn't be the case. So, because of such differences between these games, they were confused as I described above, thinking that a trireme in the Myrtoan Sea would have been in supply without a land unit next to it as they thought that they had to check the supply line conditions only for the spaces between the trireme and the city, and not for the space of the trireme itself as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alec Usticke
United States
Peekskill
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Spyros_UCL wrote:
But they were confused.
In VoD you can have an Athenian Hoplite in Cythera and he can still be in supply even if the Myrtoan Sea and the Saronic Gulf are empty. In QMG this wouldn't be the case. So, because of such differences between these games, they were confused as I described above, thinking that a trireme in the Myrtoan Sea would have been in supply without a land unit next to it as they thought that they had to check the supply line conditions only for the spaces between the trireme and the city, and not for the space of the trireme itself as well.

Understandable. Even the rule I cited is commonly mistaken in QMG.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luc
United Kingdom
Manchester
Greater Manchester
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think of it this way:

For a space to be usable in a supply line:
* A land space should have a friendly piece or coin
* A neutral space should have a friendly coin
* A sea space should be adjacent to a land/neutral space with a friendly piece or coin, and must not contain an enemy Trireme.

"Normal supply check" (also for Muster in Place)
* Trace a line of adjacent usable areas from the relevant area to a friendly City, inclusive.

"Muster supply check"
* Trace a line of adjacent usable areas from the relevant area to your own City, inclusive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alec Usticke
United States
Peekskill
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
eadred wrote:
I think of it this way:

For a space to be usable in a supply line:
* A land space should have a friendly piece or coin
* A neutral space should have a friendly coin
* A sea space should be adjacent to a land/neutral space with a friendly piece or coin, and must not contain an enemy Trireme.

"Normal supply check" (also for Muster in Place)
* Trace a line of adjacent usable areas from the relevant area to a friendly City, inclusive.

"Muster supply check"
* Trace a line of adjacent usable areas from the relevant area to your own City, inclusive.

Additionally, when mustering a hoplite, it must be in or adjacent to your own piece. (Bribery tokens are not "pieces".)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spyros
msg tools
austicke wrote:
Spyros_UCL wrote:
But they were confused.
In VoD you can have an Athenian Hoplite in Cythera and he can still be in supply even if the Myrtoan Sea and the Saronic Gulf are empty. In QMG this wouldn't be the case. So, because of such differences between these games, they were confused as I described above, thinking that a trireme in the Myrtoan Sea would have been in supply without a land unit next to it as they thought that they had to check the supply line conditions only for the spaces between the trireme and the city, and not for the space of the trireme itself as well.

Understandable. Even the rule I cited is commonly mistaken in QMG.


Indeed, it's commonly mistaken in QMG.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Mitchell
United Kingdom
Enfield
Middlesex
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I sympathise with the OP. in QMG I can immediately recognise that a navy is out of supply, but in VoD I have to consciously analyse each step of the route when tracing supply by sea.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Turner
United Kingdom
Farnham
Surrey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So, is this completely clear then? Because the rules wording is a little ambiguous.

A trireme cannot be in supply if the sea space it's on is not next to an allied land piece? The rules only talk about tracing supply through adjacent spaces.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.