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Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » General

Subject: Star Wars Rebellion VS War of the Ring rss

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Joshua Terrazas
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I have not played either games and was looking for advice what people thought was a better game, based of mechanics. I like the theme of both games and just wanted to hear people's thoughts before I made a big purchase.
 
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Scott Lewis
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I like both games, and to pick a better one is tough for me. I'll admit, I'm not as familiar with WotR 2nd Edition, but it's not THAT much different than 1E.

I think I tend to prefer Rebellion, though I'd happily play either. War of the Ring is definitely much more army/battle oriented (even with the fellowship mechanic). Rebellion has battles, too, but is a lot more card-driven and a bit of cat-and-mouse and bluffing.
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Mike Barry
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At their core they are very similar.

WOTR is definitely more focused on combat than SWR is. However the general premise of the games are the same:

Evil Guys need to conquer Obj X.

Good Guys need to Speed up the clock so time runs out before Evil Guys score Obj X.

I'd personally go with whatever universe you are preferential to.

If that doesnt matter, WOTR is more combat based, SWR is far more intrigue and bluffing based.
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Derry Salewski
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If you like both things amd like the type of game, buy both. It's doubtful there's much else you could buy that will bring you more enjoyment.


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Elihu Feustel
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I like Rebellion much more. In LOTR, it always seemed like the best Fellowship plan was to race to the end of the game as quickly as possible. Most of the fighting didn't matter, because the game would be decided much sooner in Mount Doom.

Rebellion has much more strategic flexibility on both sides.
 
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Doug DeMoss
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daringly wrote:
I like Rebellion much more. In LOTR, it always seemed like the best Fellowship plan was to race to the end of the game as quickly as possible. Most of the fighting didn't matter, because the game would be decided much sooner in Mount Doom.

Rebellion has much more strategic flexibility on both sides.


But there is a counter to that - the Shadow player puts more dice in the hunt pool and the Fellowship doesn't make it.
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Steve Dara
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I've played a large amount of both and I must say Rebellion is a better game overall.

My reasoning, and it's fair to disagree with me, is that your hands are a lot less tied in Rebellion than in WotR. What I mean is that in WotR, you could roll bad at the start of your turn and be severely limited in the actions you can do, despite your army being one space away from their empty fortress... In Rebellion, almost any leader can move any army, though some will provide benefits over others. Also, there are generic missions that will always help your cause, like how the rebellion can always sabotage if they didn't get a better card to play.

I am actually a larger LotR fan than a SW fan, but the immersion value of Rebellion is better then that of WotR in my opinion. In WotR the characters are almost identical, with very few differences in their leadership and abilities. Though in Rebellion each character comes with a lore relevant action card and a 'priority' benefit to a mission they'd make sense doing (Like Chewbacca leading a Wookie Uprising).

I must say however if you do not like games that require keeping secrets or maintaining a poker face then Rebellion is definitely not for you. While in WotR you may keep your plan a secret, the shadow nations know where all of your VPs lie and they know how close (approximately) Frodo and Sam can be. Whereas in Rebellion the Empire really has to judge every move the Rebels make to decide whether or not they are on the right track.

Another point to note is that WotR has expansions (that not many people know about). They are very one-sided and scenario based, but if you enjoy games with multiple variants that would be a pro for WotR.

Hope this helped!
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Bob Holmstrom
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Game mechanics are very different. Play times are similar. Both are light war games. Both games are well balanced but asymetrical.

Check out play through videos and see which is more appealing. I like both even though I prefer old school war games. The main reason I like them is because they both nail their theme despite their "light" nature, for me anyway.
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Doug DeMoss
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Strategery21 wrote:
Game mechanics are very different. Play times are similar. Both are light war games. Both games are well balanced but asymetrical.

Check out play through videos and see which is more appealing. I like both even though I prefer old school war games. The main reason I like them is because they both nail their theme despite their "light" nature, for me anyway.


That brings up a possibly important point - while both games are asymmetrical, Rebellion is quite a bit more so. There's nothing in Rebellion comparable to the fortresses that the Free Peoples in War of the Ring depend upon.
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John Correll
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I have played both a grand total of one time each and both are great. it has been a while since I last played rebellion, but it seemed that wotr may have more depth to it. recruit thru cards and dice rolls and free people dont get placed back on the board after anihilation. both have been around in one form or another and cant see anyone going wrong with either of them.
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Mattias Elfström
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Although SWR is a nice game I think WotR is much deeper. It is also much more complex and will take much longer to play. In the long run you will find that WotR will keep your interest longer.

In my experience SWR takes 2-4 hours to finish while WotR takes 6-8.
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mark coomey
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Mattias wrote:
Although SWR is a nice game I think WotR is much deeper. It is also much more complex and will take much longer to play. In the long run you will find that WotR will keep your interest longer.

In my experience SWR takes 2-4 hours to finish while WotR takes 6-8.


I disagree with you.
My experience playing both games is SWR consistently plays at 4+hours.
WotR generally plays under 3 hours for us but the occasional game can run longer.

My pick, probably WotR for long term replayability. Sure you've always got to head to Mt Doom with the fellowship, but you've also always got to threaten the other option to winning the game, a fellowship military win, otherwise you will lose as the FP.

I also Loove SW:R but have played a lot less games and only just coming to grips with winning on one side or the other. I like the cat and mouse style games as well, but find it hard to think it could topple WotR as the best of the two, no matter how shiny and new it is.
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Sebastian Bauer
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I'd have to agree with Mark.

I do own both games (War of the Ring with the expansion Lords of Middle Earth) and have played both a lot with my girlfriend in the past year.

Although I have been really excited when SW:Rebellion came out in germany, I have to say, that it's not feeling as back and forth as War of the Ring. I do feel I have more choices and chances in WotR to get a win not only by having good rolls, but by using my dice and cards in the best possible way.

Of course bad die rolls can kill you in WotR, but in SW:Rebellion I feel like it's often coming down to like two situations where I have to succeed in my die roll or I loose. In WotR that only happened to us at the end of the game, where everything came down to one die roll or one hunt tile, but it always feels thematic and epic and as the conclusion of all our decisions during the game, where in Rebellion one of us often felt a bit frustrated, because he simply had no chance of winning anymore and the game would still go for one or two more rounds.

That being said, I like to play Rebellion a lot (and think I will today!), but I think WotR is the better game.


Edit: Our standard game length for WotR is 2-3 hours and SW:Rebellion is 3+ hours.
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Chris Schafer
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Love them both, perhaps WotR a little more. However, my group are bigger SW geeks than WotR geeks so Star Wars gets played more. Both are great, my advice is decide based on the universe that appeals to your group.

They are long games and you want your opponent(s) to be as excited to play as you are.
 
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Matt Kruse
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I LOVE both of them and my advice is to buy both. Or as others say... buy the theme you like the most.

However, I do believe War of the Ring is currently between print runs and you will find it very pricey right now on Amazon. Unless you can get it for around $60-70 somewhere locally or in a trade... I would buy Star Wars Rebellion and wait for them to reprint War of the Ring and bring the price back down to normal.
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Foggy Leggy
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I own and love both but part of this depends on your gaming partner.

While both are great games, Rebellion is a HELL of a lot easier to learn and perhaps more importantly, to teach!

War of the Ring has a lot of separate moving components and complexity arises when those components run into each other. You control characters and armies as well as the fellowship and when you start moving the former around to influence armies/politics/card play or to take advantage of character effects, I find you start running into a lot of "am I allowed to do this?" or "what's the rule about this mechanic again?" which means a lot of time spent consulting the rulebook (which isn't small to begin with). There's also a greater degree of self-regulation in WotR where you have to remember that if X happens so-and-so event has to be done. It's not impossible to learn by any means but sometimes it's a bit much to keep track of.

This happens in Rebellion too but not nearly to the same degree. There are a few edge cases here and there but I find most of them intuitively answerable and the rulebooks usually just confirm my guess. Overall, the mechanics of Rebellion are MUCH simpler and run smoother I find than those in WotR and the strategic depth is comparable.

I suppose in short, you'll be playing error-free games of Rebellion faster than you'll be playing error-free games of WotR and if you're gaming partner is more casual, Rebellion is the better bet.

One major strike against WotR though is that someone decided to have all the good guy figures one colour and all the badguy figures one colour (despite their being EIGHT factions between them)! That can make things VERY difficult for a new player even those casually familiar with LotR if you start mixing armies due to the fact that factions have to be played differently depending on the their current political stance (again, moving components running into each other).
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Steve Dara
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Another thought that I had, and I'd be interested to see if all of these WotR fans feel the same...

In WotR one thing that always bothered me is that almost the entire game happens in one theater. Meaning if Sauron start preparing to attack Gondor then almost nothing will happen with the Dwarves, Elves, or the North. And vice versa, there always seems to be plenty of action in one section of the map leaving the rest stale. This is further disappointing when the free peoples player gets amazing cards for one section of the map, but there is no action on that side of the board...

The game is still great, but it just seems like it is too big for how many actions each player is allowed to take each turn... Or the other way around; There are too few actions for how big the game is.

Just fishing for opinions.
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Keith Craig
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TheV0791 wrote:
Another thought that I had, and I'd be interested to see if all of these WotR fans feel the same...

In WotR one thing that always bothered me is that almost the entire game happens in one theater. Meaning if Sauron start preparing to attack Gondor then almost nothing will happen with the Dwarves, Elves, or the North. And vice versa, there always seems to be plenty of action in one section of the map leaving the rest stale. This is further disappointing when the free peoples player gets amazing cards for one section of the map, but there is no action on that side of the board...

The game is still great, but it just seems like it is too big for how many actions each player is allowed to take each turn... Or the other way around; There are too few actions for how big the game is.

Just fishing for opinions.


That is what I like about WOTR. I have had games where Gondor is ignored and the north is assaulted or vice versa.


To the OP. I would get the game that you believe you would get played more often. That is group dependent.

I can play WOTR online quite a lot as there is an active on line group of players where as Rebellion is hard to find an on line group.

But in face to face play I have more luck with Rebellion as there are more Star Wars fans in my area that will give it a shot and then just love it.

 
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Doug DeMoss
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TheV0791 wrote:
Another thought that I had, and I'd be interested to see if all of these WotR fans feel the same...

In WotR one thing that always bothered me is that almost the entire game happens in one theater. Meaning if Sauron start preparing to attack Gondor then almost nothing will happen with the Dwarves, Elves, or the North. And vice versa, there always seems to be plenty of action in one section of the map leaving the rest stale. This is further disappointing when the free peoples player gets amazing cards for one section of the map, but there is no action on that side of the board...

The game is still great, but it just seems like it is too big for how many actions each player is allowed to take each turn... Or the other way around; There are too few actions for how big the game is.

Just fishing for opinions.


I never really saw that in WotR - the Shadow player can't win by just taking out one theater, even Gondor.
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Sebastian Bauer
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kbclac wrote:
Another thought that I had, and I'd be interested to see if all of these WotR fans feel the same...

In WotR one thing that always bothered me is that almost the entire game happens in one theater. Meaning if Sauron start preparing to attack Gondor then almost nothing will happen with the Dwarves, Elves, or the North. And vice versa, there always seems to be plenty of action in one section of the map leaving the rest stale. This is further disappointing when the free peoples player gets amazing cards for one section of the map, but there is no action on that side of the board...

The game is still great, but it just seems like it is too big for how many actions each player is allowed to take each turn... Or the other way around; There are too few actions for how big the game is.

Just fishing for opinions.


We had those situations too, where Merry was left in the Shire, but noone ever came close to him, so he was left all game doing nothing.
Well I don't think it's a bad thing, because first of all it gives more strategic thinking to the game: "Do I keep that card, because I think the Shadow will attack the elves later on or do I use the battle effect of that card?"
And in terms of lore, I think in the books Saruman starts to assault Helms deep and after that Sauron attacks Gondor but has been preparing a war in the north too. Well that's is definitely a game situation that can occur. So in the end it's not taking place in just one theater.
 
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Phil van Niekerk
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I own both. And while I would happily play either, I've found SWR is much easier to get to the table.

Mainly due to the complexity issues already mentioned coupled with the fact that Star Wars is all the rage right now.


 
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Tim Garrett
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Solemmanolem wrote:
We had those situations too, where Merry was left in the Shire, but noone ever came close to him, so he was left all game doing nothing.
Well I don't think it's a bad thing, because first of all it gives more strategic thinking to the game: "Do I keep that card, because I think the Shadow will attack the elves later on or do I use the battle effect of that card?"
And in terms of lore, I think in the books Saruman starts to assault Helms deep and after that Sauron attacks Gondor but has been preparing a war in the north too. Well that's is definitely a game situation that can occur. So in the end it's not taking place in just one theater.


Actually, in the books, the War really happens across Middle-Earth- Isengard attacks Rohan, Mordor/Harad attacks Gondor, Easterlings attack Dale/Erebor, Dol Guldur attacks Mirkwood, and Moria attacks Lorien.

Which is pretty typical for a WotR game. There are really four "theaters" - the South (Gondor/Rohan), the Northeast (Woodland, Erebor, Dale), the Misty Mountains (Rivendell/Lorien), and the Northwest (Grey Havens/Shire). Usually, one theater is left out, but all the others are put into play. It's impossible for the Shadow to win a military victory just by taking out Gondor- even annihilating Gondor and Rohan won't do it, and that's not easy to accomplish.

More on topic, I'll echo everyone else saying that they're both great games. I'd say that Rebellion is the easier game to learn, and War of the Ring is the superior game mechanically.

For me, WotR's only drawback is the intimidation factor of learning the rules- once those are done, it's great. It's remarkably well balanced, and while luck can screw a player up, it's very rare.

Rebellion's biggest weakness to me lies in just how dependent on luck the game can be. In a random start, the Empire can conceivably knock out the entire rebellion's ally planets in the first turn, which puts the Rebels at a huge drawback. In the same vein, if they draw Lure of the Dark Side or their diplomacy cards early, they can enjoy an immensely easier game. While WotR has a similar setup, with card draws of different power, I'd argue that it has a much smaller impact there- happy to discuss it in greater depth if anyone's interested.

This may be more personal, but unlike WotR, there are parts of Rebellion that I really just don't enjoy. Production phases are awkward, long, and frustrating, as you try to keep track of a lot of information while politely trying to make sure your ally is also getting the rules right. Combat is also long, awkward, and typically disappointing for me whenever I win or lose. WotR doesn't have any unpleasant parts for me at all- while I won't argue that the combat in it is amazing, it is at least functional and quick.

Something that also bothers me about Rebellion is that it's flat-out impossible to recreate the events of the movies in it, and oftentimes, the rules work against the theme. Tarkin will never die in the Death Star explosion- in fact, he'll never die at all. Jabba the Hutt is nowhere to be found. Han Solo has absolutely no reason to lead a strike force attack on the planet the Death Star is being built over. The uprising card, which calls the natives to the rebels' side and has a picture of an ewok village, can't be played on Endor.

In War of the Ring, however, the rules do a wonderful job of emulating every key development in the story. Given the proper card draws, players could replicate all the choices made by the books' characters and- and this is key- they would all be defensible, oftentimes very good choices. I personally find this very satisfying. While I appreciate that both of these games exist to explore alternate possibilities, I feel like War of the Ring does it much cleaner. With WotR, you feel like the theme really inspired the game design. With Rebellion, you sometimes feel like the designers felt like the theme was impeding the design.

So that's my $.02 for WotR. All that said, they're both solid games. Rebellion's easier to play, and is usually a bit shorter. WotR's probably the deeper game, and I wouldn't be surprised if, in 10 years, WotR is remembered a lot more fondly than Rebellion is. If, based on those criteria, or just on the theme, one game sounds better, go for it. Otherwise, flip a coin- you likely won't be disappointed with your purchase either way.
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Chris Seidler
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Garriath wrote:
Solemmanolem wrote:
We had those situations too, where Merry was left in the Shire, but noone ever came close to him, so he was left all game doing nothing.
Well I don't think it's a bad thing, because first of all it gives more strategic thinking to the game: "Do I keep that card, because I think the Shadow will attack the elves later on or do I use the battle effect of that card?"
And in terms of lore, I think in the books Saruman starts to assault Helms deep and after that Sauron attacks Gondor but has been preparing a war in the north too. Well that's is definitely a game situation that can occur. So in the end it's not taking place in just one theater.


Actually, in the books, the War really happens across Middle-Earth- Isengard attacks Rohan, Mordor/Harad attacks Gondor, Easterlings attack Dale/Erebor, Dol Guldur attacks Mirkwood, and Moria attacks Lorien.

Which is pretty typical for a WotR game. There are really four "theaters" - the South (Gondor/Rohan), the Northeast (Woodland, Erebor, Dale), the Misty Mountains (Rivendell/Lorien), and the Northwest (Grey Havens/Shire). Usually, one theater is left out, but all the others are put into play. It's impossible for the Shadow to win a military victory just by taking out Gondor- even annihilating Gondor and Rohan won't do it, and that's not easy to accomplish.

More on topic, I'll echo everyone else saying that they're both great games. I'd say that Rebellion is the easier game to learn, and War of the Ring is the superior game mechanically.

For me, WotR's only drawback is the intimidation factor of learning the rules- once those are done, it's great. It's remarkably well balanced, and while luck can screw a player up, it's very rare.

Rebellion's biggest weakness to me lies in just how dependent on luck the game can be. In a random start, the Empire can conceivably knock out the entire rebellion's ally planets in the first turn, which puts the Rebels at a huge drawback. In the same vein, if they draw Lure of the Dark Side or their diplomacy cards early, they can enjoy an immensely easier game. While WotR has a similar setup, with card draws of different power, I'd argue that it has a much smaller impact there- happy to discuss it in greater depth if anyone's interested.

This may be more personal, but unlike WotR, there are parts of Rebellion that I really just don't enjoy. Production phases are awkward, long, and frustrating, as you try to keep track of a lot of information while politely trying to make sure your ally is also getting the rules right. Combat is also long, awkward, and typically disappointing for me whenever I win or lose. WotR doesn't have any unpleasant parts for me at all- while I won't argue that the combat in it is amazing, it is at least functional and quick.

Something that also bothers me about Rebellion is that it's flat-out impossible to recreate the events of the movies in it, and oftentimes, the rules work against the theme. Tarkin will never die in the Death Star explosion- in fact, he'll never die at all. Jabba the Hutt is nowhere to be found. Han Solo has absolutely no reason to lead a strike force attack on the planet the Death Star is being built over. The uprising card, which calls the natives to the rebels' side and has a picture of an ewok village, can't be played on Endor.

In War of the Ring, however, the rules do a wonderful job of emulating every key development in the story. Given the proper card draws, players could replicate all the choices made by the books' characters and- and this is key- they would all be defensible, oftentimes very good choices. I personally find this very satisfying. While I appreciate that both of these games exist to explore alternate possibilities, I feel like War of the Ring does it much cleaner. With WotR, you feel like the theme really inspired the game design. With Rebellion, you sometimes feel like the designers felt like the theme was impeding the design.

So that's my $.02 for WotR. All that said, they're both solid games. Rebellion's easier to play, and is usually a bit shorter. WotR's probably the deeper game, and I wouldn't be surprised if, in 10 years, WotR is remembered a lot more fondly than Rebellion is. If, based on those criteria, or just on the theme, one game sounds better, go for it. Otherwise, flip a coin- you likely won't be disappointed with your purchase either way.


Exactly my thoughts. Well done, Sir, and some GG for you!
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Brad Miller
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War of the Ring is deeper, I think. More to do, and more ways to do it. Combat is more important, and more technical. Both capture their themes really well. I'll play either, anytime.
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Nicolas Poirier
France
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Hello,

Globaly, two very good games.
Those two games really enable you to dive deeply into the atmosphere of the books or movies. I really enjoy them.
You will have fun with those two games for sure.

Nevertheless, If I had to choose, I will go for Star Wars Rebellion.
The reasons are the following:

1/ The rules of War of the Ring are really complex to get and master. Your first games are not going to be so fluid. You can be a little lost.
Star Wars Rébellion is easier to take over.

2/ The plastic figurines of War of the Ring are quite similar and sometimes it is quite painfull to make the difference between two nations armies. That is once thing I dont like with that game.

I hope that will help.
 
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