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Glorantha: The Gods War» Forums » General

Subject: Where are the War Gods and the Magic Gods in the KS ??? rss

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Bernard Gourion
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I suddenly remind me that War Gods and Magic Gods were supposed to be added to the game for each faction ... BUt in the current KS, there is no sign of any these Greater or lesser gods. What happens ?

I want Wakboth !

 
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Benjamin Vanpelt
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Because of their difficulties to develop and things like that those expansions were pulled from the current one. Though I did read somewhere that if the campaign was successful enough they would just throw those into add-ons. I really wanted those too myself. Especially Babeester Gor, Wakboth, and Storm Bull. Unless it gets well past the the 1 million mark I see them being added in as unlikely for the time being.
 
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Arthur Petersen
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bengougou75 wrote:
I suddenly remind me that War Gods and Magic Gods were supposed to be added to the game for each faction ... BUt in the current KS, there is no sign of any these Greater or lesser gods. What happens ?

I want Wakboth !



There were 3 such sets:

War Gods
Magic Gods
Secret Gods

Each with 8 units (one per Empire), and that meant 24 more unique sculpts, which we just didn't have time to do, though Sandy has designed them. If The Gods War is successful enough, and that prods Sandy to do a The Gods War 2 KS, then I have no doubt these would be the first 3 new expansions offered. We'll see.

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Benjamin Vanpelt
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existoid wrote:
bengougou75 wrote:
I suddenly remind me that War Gods and Magic Gods were supposed to be added to the game for each faction ... BUt in the current KS, there is no sign of any these Greater or lesser gods. What happens ?

I want Wakboth !



There were 3 such sets:

War Gods
Magic Gods
Secret Gods

Each with 8 units (one per Empire), and that meant 24 more unique sculpts, which we just didn't have time to do, though Sandy has designed them. If The Gods War is successful enough, and that prods Sandy to do a The Gods War 2 KS, then I have no doubt these would be the first 3 new expansions offered. We'll see.


Do be careful with your words sir, you got my hopes up now
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Lincoln Petersen
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Honestly the game is lackluster without playing with Shargash.

...sniff, sniff, I just want to commit Genocide!
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Bernard Gourion
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existoid wrote:
bengougou75 wrote:
I suddenly remind me that War Gods and Magic Gods were supposed to be added to the game for each faction ... BUt in the current KS, there is no sign of any these Greater or lesser gods. What happens ?

I want Wakboth !



There were 3 such sets:

War Gods
Magic Gods
Secret Gods

Each with 8 units (one per Empire), and that meant 24 more unique sculpts, which we just didn't have time to do, though Sandy has designed them. If The Gods War is successful enough, and that prods Sandy to do a The Gods War 2 KS, then I have no doubt these would be the first 3 new expansions offered. We'll see.



Arthur,

In OS2, the plastic components were popular because we already have a lot of new units but in Gods War these Secrets, War and Magic gods just expand the factions directly so IMO they could prove to be as satisfying as the HP are for factions in CW. So Could you swap some plastic components with these units ?
A Glorantha game without Babestergor is not a perfect Glorantha game !! goo
 
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Benjamin Vanpelt
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And we need that epic clash of Wakboth vs Storm Bull.
 
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Marko Parviainen
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I'm intrigued by these new gods...

I realise that we won't be seeing them in this kickstarter, but some info of them would be nice.

Are all of the new gods Greater Gods, or are some of them Lesser Gods?

Say, 8 War Gods are Greter Gods or 8 Magic gods are Lesser Gods (or the other way around).

Would "Invisible god" faction even have visible war gods or magic gods or secret gods?

What would be the general themes of these god groups? I can quess that war gods are good at stomping people into dust, but what are magic gods or secret gods good at?
 
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Graham Robinson
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ColHammer wrote:
Would "Invisible god" faction even have visible war gods or magic gods or secret gods?

What would be the general themes of these god groups? I can quess that war gods are good at stomping people into dust, but what are magic gods or secret gods good at?


The Invisible God has his share of prophets, saints, heroes, etc. My guess would be that some of this would make an appearance in these sets. Possibly Zzabur, Malkion, and Rokar?

I'd also be surprised if the "magic" and "secret" labels should be taken too literally. We've already got the potential for Androgeous to appear in the "monster" box, but from her first appearance he has always been described as a "hero".

Cheers,
Graham
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Jörg Baumgartner
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ColHammer wrote:
I'm intrigued by these new gods...

I realise that we won't be seeing them in this kickstarter, but some info of them would be nice.

Are all of the new gods Greater Gods, or are some of them Lesser Gods?


In Gloranthan terms, these gods are a step below a Greater God, but significantly above a (more or less nameless) Lesser God. Unlike the mortal heroes, these are immortal Gods (which makes their Invisible God faction representants a semi-exception).


ColHammer wrote:
Say, 8 War Gods are Greter Gods or 8 Magic gods are Lesser Gods (or the other way around).


You could expect better (unmodified) combat values for war gods than for the other two categories, but what really makes these deities significant is their influence on all the factions, or on units of their own faction. As I understand it, each of them comes with an additional "empire sheet" or "character sheet" that provides a heroquest and a gift. No idea whether these are counted when generating power or victory points, but at a guess yes to both.

The gift of the Storm empire War God for instance (Vadrus) inverts Orlanth's weakness (honor - you have to pay two power to declare an attack on an opponent with zero power) to have all other factions pay the double price while Storm only pays one.

ColHammer wrote:
What would be the general themes of these god groups? I can quess that war gods are good at stomping people into dust, but what are magic gods or secret gods good at?


I remember only a few examples:

The Chaos empire Secret God gift can re-open the Rift, providing all other factions with a costly distraction and Chaos with a source of runes.

The Storm Secret God (Lhankor Mhy) has the gift to know the future, manifest in providing a set of six dice showing each number once, of which he may assign one in each die rolling contest he interferes with until all have been used. (Bad die roll results may be assigned to enemy factions...) No idea whether the gift has to be re-earned for a second set of dice or whether these come again for free.


therealbuserian wrote:
The Invisible God has his share of prophets, saints, heroes, etc. My guess would be that some of this would make an appearance in these sets. Possibly Zzabur, Malkion, and Rokar?


Zzabur definitely is in for magic, Malkion is the best candidate for secret (with Talar a distant second, and Xemela the Healer a third), while the war "God" of the Invisible God could be Horal (the warrior caste archetype) or Hrestol (the founder of the "knights").

I don't think that Rokar (a Third Age mortal) would be appropriate in this game.

In the Gloranthan history as written, the conflict of the Kingdom of Logic with the elemental gods was something of a side show in their struggle with their amoral cousins, the Vadeli. They suffered from an internal conflict which split them into the Zzabur-led Brithini and the emigrants to Genertela from which the knights originated. Tying their combat dice to the number of corresponding buildings on the map makes both knights and wizards somewhat more powerful than any other "minions" in the game, but their lack of a hero and a greater god piece makes the Invisible God empire oddballs almost like Chaos.

therealbuserian wrote:
I'd also be surprised if the "magic" and "secret" labels should be taken too literally. We've already got the potential for Androgeous to appear in the "monster" box, but from her first appearance he has always been described as a "hero".


Androgeus has always (since his first appearance in the White Bear and Red Moon/Dragon Pass boardgame) been portrayed as a superhero that can be allied at a price and a calamity at once. Given that monsters can be activated by player actions (spending power on them), I think she fits his role just fine. (If you are confused about the personal pronouns, it is customary to address Androgeus alternatingly with male and female pronouns.)
 
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Marko Parviainen
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Thanks for that insight into those extra gods!

Now I'm really bummed that they are not included it this kickstarter. They all sound really interesting additions.

Well, there's always Glorantha: OS2... Right?
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Benjamin Vanpelt
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Now I thought Sandy said in a previous post that Malkion was the "war god" of the invisible God faction.
 
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Marko Parviainen
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Is the Arachna Solara (the spider lady) same thing as the Invisible god?

The spider lady is supposed to be as big as the universe, right?

 
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Jörg Baumgartner
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ColHammer wrote:
Is the Arachna Solara (the spider lady) same thing as the Invisible god?

The spider lady is supposed to be as big as the universe, right?


Glorantha is famous/notorious for allowing different, sometimes conflicting truths, so the best approach to an absolute truth is to look at what the followers of the respective deities have to say.

Regardless whether you ask a Malkioni (worshipper/follower of the Invisible God) or a theist (worshipper of one of the other pantheons), the answer will be "they are not the same."

Both are deities beyond the normal scope of (even greater) Gloranthan gods, but their mythic roles are quite different.

To the Malkioni the Invisible God is the primal Creator, separating the universe into mind and matter, and devoluting everything from there.

Arachne Solara showed up when the world was shattered, spun her web to collect all the remaining shards, and tied them together into the world that would see the Dawn of Time. It is said that she is a manifestation of Glorantha, the original, far aloof goddess of this universe. (The Malkioni "deity" at this point in the Gods War was Malkion the Sacrifice, whose death enabled the world to go on.)
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Marko Parviainen
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Thanks for the answer.

Looks like I have a lot of reading to do once I get the access to the PDF:s that are part of the Hero level I'm buying into.
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Marko Parviainen
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What is the deal with the Earth gods. Are they gods (elementals?) at all or mortals?

Their twilight rule says that when they die, they are gone for good. That sounds like mortal to me. Every other god can be summoned back to world when they kick the bucket. The sun god cannot even die at all.

So are the Titans some kind of god precursors like they are in greek mythology (the greek gods were children of the titans iirc.)

Are there vampires in Glorantha anyway? The twilight rule says that they start to sparkle when a Titan dies. What are the game rules of a sparkling vampire vs. regular vampire? When do we see a vampire miniature for the game?

(and yes, I got the movie joke...)
 
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Graham Robinson
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Genert and Pamalt are the Gods of the two main continents. Genert died during the Gods war, and his garden is a blasted waste because of this. Pamalt survived, and his land is still fertile.

Cheers, Graham
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Graham Robinson
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Vampires in glorantha are followers of the chaos God Vivamort. Beyond the movie reference, I know nothing of sparkling.

Cheers, Graham
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Sandy Petersen
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Okay this was Sandy's (lack of a) sense of humor.

I was creating the Earth sheet, and wanted to give the Titans the weakness that when they die, they are gone forever. Naturally enough, I thought of the "twilight of the gods" and decided to call this ability "Twilight". Unfortunately, after writing up the ability, my brain jumped the track and started thinking about Stephanie Meyer's books. So I was forced (really, against my will) to insert the statement that "Vampires now sparkle".

Have no fear, it won't be in the published game.
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Sandy Petersen
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ColHammer wrote:
What is the deal with the Earth gods. Are they gods (elementals?) at all or mortals?

Their twilight rule says that when they die, they are gone for good. That sounds like mortal to me. Every other god can be summoned back to world when they kick the bucket. The sun god cannot even die at all.

So are the Titans some kind of god precursors like they are in greek mythology (the greek gods were children of the titans iirc.)

Are there vampires in Glorantha anyway? The twilight rule says that they start to sparkle when a Titan dies. What are the game rules of a sparkling vampire vs. regular vampire? When do we see a vampire miniature for the game?

(and yes, I got the movie joke...)


The Titans are Immortals ... who can be killed. I know that doesn't necessarily parse sensibly, but really it fits well within the world's milieu. The idea is that the Titans are part of the Old Ways (the good ways) and in the harsh new environment of the Gods War, they tend to vanish, never to return. This is a pretty common theme of a lot of mythologies, and it is in mine as well.

I have seen Earth end the game with both Titans still alive, one dead, and both dead. I must say in the games when she ends with both alive, I have never seen an Earth win - because she was playing too passively. Like every faction in Gods War, you need to mess with your opponents. A common trap Earth falls into is to sit back and try to be everyone's friends, using your Queens to earn lots of Power for your buildings. Ultimately your friends prove false and turn on you. So you need to turn on them first.
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