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BRL 1192: Tobruk Deprogrammed» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rule Section 5.8.52 APCR AMMUNITION rss

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Scott Clinton
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This would seem like yet another reason why the orignal is far, far superior to the new-better version (that also costs about 5-6 times more). This is a perfect example as well. Another rule, another die roll, more complexity, nothing gained, something lost. New is not always better.

...grumble...grumble...
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Mo Caraher
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Quote:
If this dr is > the ROF available for APCR during that shot, the weapon is out of APCR after that shot, for the remainder of the scenario.


With each successive shot taken the ROF available decreases by one, so the chances of getting APCR are greater early on in the impulse (shot? turn? Not sure of the vernacular, here).
In your example ROF is 7, so you stand a great chance of getting APCR.
On the next shot ROF is now 6.
After that ROF is 5.
And so on.

Dig?
 
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Mo Caraher
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In the AH version, the “only” time APCR could be fired at targets other than Grants, Matilda II’s, or Valentines was if all other ammo had been exhausted period.


Yeah. Even at age 12 I could see that was a ridiculous convention. If you've got APCR, son, that's what you'll be reaching for, every time.
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Mo Caraher
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Maybe. If you hear back from Ray please post your findings. I'm curious, now.
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dave Prasse
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moly19 wrote:
Quote:
In the AH version, the “only” time APCR could be fired at targets other than Grants, Matilda II’s, or Valentines was if all other ammo had been exhausted period.


Yeah. Even at age 12 I could see that was a ridiculous convention. If you've got APCR, son, that's what you'll be reaching for, every time.


Actually , not .. The metals used in APCR was becoming rare for Germany and was a scarce commodity for the AK ... It was saved for the targets "needing" the extra punch and not just used for fun ...
 
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dave Prasse
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Stearjas wrote:

.... The smart player is going to fire regular AP to Acquire and hit the target Grant, Matilda II, or Valentine, and use APCR when it has achieved BOT

Hope this helps!

Pretty much how I play Classic Tobruk ... Even use HE to acquire the target if it is much more plentiful ...
 
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Brian McCue
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Stearjas wrote:
… only fire APCR on Acquired targets, and once a hit occurs taking advantage of the BOT -3 DRM to ensure even more hits that may or may not result in a damaged target vehicle...


One could well argue that the ballistics of the APCR round are different enough from those of the regular round that a target acquired with one is not acquired for the other.

More record-keeping ... or a need for more retro black Additional Counters for the original game.

 
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Jim Stearns
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brianmccue wrote:
Stearjas wrote:
… only fire APCR on Acquired targets, and once a hit occurs taking advantage of the BOT -3 DRM to ensure even more hits that may or may not result in a damaged target vehicle...


One could well argue that the ballistics of the APCR round are different enough from those of the regular round that a target acquired with one is not acquired for the other.

More record-keeping ... or a need for more retro black Additional Counters for the original game.



Let's not argue... It is a discussion. If you go back to the originally released BRL1192 damage charts for the Grant, the UH and LH entries for the 50/L60 show a better chance of penetration firing AP to the Front aspect at a greater range than APCR fired from the same gun and hitting the same locations. I also stand by what I wrote, the APCR rules are broken, and I have yet to have he BRL1192 game designer respond to my email.

But with almost 3000 counters for BRL1192 record keeping becomes a thing of the past... Just represent everything with stacks and stacks of informational counters, and add more die rolls because... err, never mind, I'll take more retro black counters please!
 
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Jim Stearns
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brianmccue wrote:
Stearjas wrote:
… only fire APCR on Acquired targets, and once a hit occurs taking advantage of the BOT -3 DRM to ensure even more hits that may or may not result in a damaged target vehicle...


One could well argue that the ballistics of the APCR round are different enough from those of the regular round that a target acquired with one is not acquired for the other.



Well, with the limited availability of APCR it doesn't really matter... And the ballistics of AP, HE, and APCR were all different. It is interesting to note that Pz III's generally carried more HE rounds than AP/APCR, because tactical doctrine dictated that AFV's retire behind anti-tank gun screens of 50mm PAK and 88mm FLAK which tended to destroy more Commonwealth AFV's that the Axis AFV's did.

Ammo limits... Tobruk (AH) had them, BRL1192 does not.
 
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Brian McCue
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Stearjas wrote:
Let's not argue... It is a discussion.


Amen.

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Mo Caraher
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Revisiting this.

Quote:
As written the rule is broken... Nowhere does it say the ROF die decreases on successive shots as you write above.


I could be mistaken, but I believe you are misunderstanding.
I wasn't referring to the ROF die but rather to the actual ROF or, more specifically, the finite number of shots available.

I previously suggested:

Quote:
With each successive shot taken the ROF available decreases by one, so the chances of getting APCR are greater early on in the impulse...
In your example ROF is 7, so you stand a great chance of getting APCR.
On the next shot ROF is now 6.
After that ROF is 5.
And so on.


Would this not solve the problem you describe?

Also curious who you contacted re: these rules questions, and if you have received a response, as yet.
 
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