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Liberty or Death: The American Insurrection» Forums » General

Subject: Soitaire Play rss

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Nick Dotzenrod
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Can someone comment on the solitaire value of this game?
 
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Tim Royal
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Solitiare is an investment, but well worth it in my opinion. The "Bot" AI sequence for each of the different factions does justice to the game.

I wouldn't start with using the bots, I'd run through games of it playing all four sides first. After that, the bot flowcharts adeptly manage the other factions.

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Nick Dotzenrod
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why without the AI first?

Also, is it replayable even though the AI is scripted?


Maybe these are dumb questions. I know little about the game except it can be played solo and looks cool.
 
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Matt Albritton
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I played my first solitaire game with the bots and it went fine, but very slowly as I learned the flow charts. The bots aren't strictly scripted because of the die roll decisions at certain points.

The advantage of playing this way is that the bots show you what each faction should be attempting.

However, I wouldn't necessarily buy this game if I was only going to play it solitaire. The game play is very rewarding with four players and there are much better solitaire games out there. But since the game also has bots, that is a plus.
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Nick Dotzenrod
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any recommendations for a independence war solitaire game similar to this one?
 
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Christian Nierensieb
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[q="bassman211"]why without the AI first?
/q]
Basically because there are two levels of learning involved with playing against the bots:
1) The flowcharts tells you what the bot is doing based on the board state (which also makes the game replayable, because the board state depends on your actions, the order of play, events etc.).
2) The rules tell you how to execute what the bot is trying to do.

If you skip the bots for the first few plays you can focus just on how to execute the various commands and special abilites every faction has. You probably won't be making optimal moves for each faction, but who cares?
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Edward Pundyk
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bassman211 wrote:
any recommendations for a independence war solitaire game similar to this one?


Although not very similar, there is no better purpose-built solitaire game on the American Revolution than White Dog Game's Don't Tread On Me: The American Revolution Solitaire Board Game, IMHO. The AI is very challenging and there are many optional rules to increase or decrease the solo player's chances of winning. The game also has a high replayability factor. I've played about a dozen games and still haven't worked out an optimal strategy.
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Volko Ruhnke
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Kubigaruma wrote:
The bots aren't strictly scripted because of the die roll decisions at certain points.

In addition, so much depends on which Event/initiative cards come up when, and how those permutations interact with board position, including the results of the decisions that the player is making.

Enjoy! Volko
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John Razler
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I play almost exclusively solo.

I find the game to be highly, highly re-playable.

Actually, one of the things I enjoy most is how different the course of the game takes each time (the exception being French, pre entry to the war, only because their actions are somewhat limited).

The randomization of the events and order of play makes each game unique.
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Luke Jacobs
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I've only ever played it solo and I enjoy it greatly.

The bots took some time to understand, and I think I would have had an easier time had I started with Cuba Libre.

I enjoy this though. The bots play to win.

I suggest playing as two factions against the other two.
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Jason Sherlock
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Because of the linked victory conditions, I think that this game is better solo (playing only one faction) than it is a multi-player game.
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Scott D
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Late to the party here, but this is my favorite of the COINs to play solitaire. First, the bots are designed such that you can play as any Faction. While you can do the same in Fire in the Lake, the bot instructions are easier to follow here in my opinion. Additionally, the bots receive the benefit of Oerjan being more experienced in creating them, so they are better to play against.
 
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Scottland wrote:
Late to the party here, but this is my favorite of the COINs to play solitaire. First, the bots are designed such that you can play as any Faction. While you can do the same in Fire in the Lake, the bot instructions are easier to follow here in my opinion. Additionally, the bots receive the benefit of Oerjan being more experienced in creating them, so they are better to play against.
aside from what you mention above can you describe any other differences between playing LOD solo and FITL? (Leaving aside the obvious difference of theme of course.)
 
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Scott D
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Off the top of my head, I can think of a few things:

1. Fire in the Lake has tons of NP event instructions to account for all of the different possible event cards: whether or not the bot will play the event and, if so, how. This is much more streamlined in LoD. There are a series of questions that a Faction asks (unique to each Faction) to determine whether they will play the event or not. For example, one of the FrenchBot questions is, "Event moves Regulars from Unavailable to Available?" If so, the FrenchBot plays the event. If not, you move on to the next question. If all questions (five or so) are answered in the negative, the bot automatically chooses Command & Special Activity instead. This cuts down significantly on the number of specific NP event instructions you have to parse through.

2. The Air Lift SA does not exist in LoD. I found the NP instructions for Air Lift to be really complicated in FitL. NP British Garrison is complex, but the example in the Playbook is relatively easy to follow.

3. I just personally feel the NP flowcharts are more clear in LoD.

4. The instructions for when a LoD bot plays its Brilliant Stroke are easier to manage than those for when a FitL bot plays its Pivotal Event, in my opinion. Likewise, actually implementing a NP Brilliant Stroke is easier, though that is not limited to the bot play.
 
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Scottland wrote:
Off the top of my head, I can think of a few things:

1. Fire in the Lake has tons of NP event instructions to account for all of the different possible event cards: whether or not the bot will play the event and, if so, how. This is much more streamlined in LoD. There are a series of questions that a Faction asks (unique to each Faction) to determine whether they will play the event or not. For example, one of the FrenchBot questions is, "Event moves Regulars from Unavailable to Available?" If so, the FrenchBot plays the event. If not, you move on to the next question. If all questions (five or so) are answered in the negative, the bot automatically chooses Command & Special Activity instead. This cuts down significantly on the number of specific NP event instructions you have to parse through.

2. The Air Lift SA does not exist in LoD. I found the NP instructions for Air Lift to be really complicated in FitL. NP British Garrison is complex, but the example in the Playbook is relatively easy to follow.

3. I just personally feel the NP flowcharts are more clear in LoD.

4. The instructions for when a LoD bot plays its Brilliant Stroke are easier to manage than those for when a FitL bot plays its Pivotal Event, in my opinion. Likewise, actually implementing a NP Brilliant Stroke is easier, though that is not limited to the bot play.
Thank you for this very helpful response!
 
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Colin Taylor
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Scottland wrote:
Off the top of my head, I can think of a few things:

1. Fire in the Lake has tons of NP event instructions to account for all of the different possible event cards: whether or not the bot will play the event and, if so, how. This is much more streamlined in LoD. There are a series of questions that a Faction asks (unique to each Faction) to determine whether they will play the event or not. For example, one of the FrenchBot questions is, "Event moves Regulars from Unavailable to Available?" If so, the FrenchBot plays the event. If not, you move on to the next question. If all questions (five or so) are answered in the negative, the bot automatically chooses Command & Special Activity instead. This cuts down significantly on the number of specific NP event instructions you have to parse through.

2. The Air Lift SA does not exist in LoD. I found the NP instructions for Air Lift to be really complicated in FitL. NP British Garrison is complex, but the example in the Playbook is relatively easy to follow.

3. I just personally feel the NP flowcharts are more clear in LoD.

4. The instructions for when a LoD bot plays its Brilliant Stroke are easier to manage than those for when a FitL bot plays its Pivotal Event, in my opinion. Likewise, actually implementing a NP Brilliant Stroke is easier, though that is not limited to the bot play.


This is good to know. For me, FitL turned out to be unplayable solo. Things like Sweep/AitLift were just so confusing and time-consuming to work out, I gave up. Totally took me out of the game. And you are right about the Events section in FitL being very tough to parse. I love the idea of a human-like bot, but when that comes at the expense of playability, that's not a trade off I'll make.

I like Cuba Libre, and am waiting for the reprint of Andean Abyss, but am avoiding the other titles now, as I don't want to be burned again. Nice to know that LoD isn't quite as tough to learn as FitL, whilst being a challenge to beat. I still won't be buying it, as the theme is not appealing to me, but it's good news that the bots are headed in a better direction, at least for me.

Colin
 
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Scottland wrote:
I just personally feel the NP flowcharts are more clear in LoD.

ColintheFlea wrote:
I still won't be buying it, as the theme is not appealing to me, but it's good news that the bots are headed in a better direction, at least for me.

Colin
Since getting Scottland's reply I have watched some solo play throughs of LOD and don't think I will be buying it either. The theme appeals to me most out of the COIN series, but there seems to be quite too much management of the AI to make it be more than at least a 75% exercise in getting the game to work so you can take your turn.

I wish someone can correct me if this is a mis-impression as the game looks great but I'd only be playing solo for the foreseeable future and that's just too much time spent in AI management to be worth it, even for a great game.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Maybe Colonial Twilight would fit you better. Being 2P, the amount of time spent on the AI is cut down 3x. I'm not certain how far along the solo rules are, so can't give you an idea of complexity, but even if the complexity is high, only running 1 bot will make a big difference.

Also, if you like the theme of Cuba Libre, that one isn't too bad to run. The small map, some shared Ops and simpler AI rules means it's the easiest to play.

Colin
 
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Harold Buchanan
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ColintheFlea wrote:
I still won't be buying it, as the theme is not appealing to me, but it's good news that the bots are headed in a better direction, at least for me.

Colin


240 years is a long time to hold a grudge.
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Colin Taylor
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hankhankhank wrote:
ColintheFlea wrote:
I still won't be buying it, as the theme is not appealing to me, but it's good news that the bots are headed in a better direction, at least for me.

Colin


240 years is a long time to hold a grudge.


Hah, yes, and I'll hold it to the day I die! So, what, hopefully another 10 years, at least!

Colin

Edit - Though I suppose I carry on that grudge in a unique way, by living and working in the US. Not sure how I can reconcile that, to be honest.
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Scott D
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adm1 wrote:
Since getting Scottland's reply I have watched some solo play throughs of LOD and don't think I will be buying it either. The theme appeals to me most out of the COIN series, but there seems to be quite too much management of the AI to make it be more than at least a 75% exercise in getting the game to work so you can take your turn.

I wish someone can correct me if this is a mis-impression as the game looks great but I'd only be playing solo for the foreseeable future and that's just too much time spent in AI management to be worth it, even for a great game.


For what it's worth, I play almost exclusively solo, and I can conduct a solo campaign (i.e. from on Winter Quarters round to the next) in about an hour, which is no longer than the game would take with human opponents. Obviously that wasn't the case at the beginning, but if you play the game exclusively solo and don't go months and months between plays, you will find it becomes intuitive. Obviously you have to do what you want, but I'd strongly recommend the game. It has become my favorite COIN game to play (and that's despite A Distant Plain's theme interesting me more).
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Scott D
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Edit - Though I suppose I carry on that grudge in a unique way, by living and working in the US. Not sure how I can reconcile that, to be honest.

An undercover agent of the Crown! After him, Sons of Liberty!
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Scottland wrote:
For what it's worth, I play almost exclusively solo, and I can conduct a solo campaign (i.e. from on Winter Quarters round to the next) in about an hour, which is no longer than the game would take with human opponents. Obviously that wasn't the case at the beginning, but if you play the game exclusively solo and don't go months and months between plays, you will find it becomes intuitive. Obviously you have to do what you want, but I'd strongly recommend the game. It has become my favorite COIN game to play (and that's despite A Distant Plain's theme interesting me more).
Thanks for the thoughts and I take your point. Guess it boils down to how much time I have to invest and how much money I'm willing to spend.

 
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Colin Taylor
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Scottland wrote:
ColintheFlea wrote:
Edit - Though I suppose I carry on that grudge in a unique way, by living and working in the US. Not sure how I can reconcile that, to be honest.

An undercover agent of the Crown! After him, Sons of Liberty!


Ack, I forgot the first rule of Spy school. Don't tell anyone your a spy.

Colin
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