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Hero Realms» Forums » General

Subject: Take on Several Days Play rss

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hazen komraus
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So my friend and i have been playing for a couple days, we've got thousands of Star Realms games under our belts and some Epic (not so into Epic). We usually play Star Realms with all the expansions.

First impressions: (we do not have the hero packs, just the PNP base set)

-Fast

-More variable, we've had several games where one of us came back from nothing to annihilate the other.

-There are many cheap and very damage heavy cards. (think Blob Ram)

-Scrap (*Ahem Sacrifice*) is super important. So important in fact, that Tyrannor the Devourer (Wrecker equivalent in Star Realms)is a game breaker. Anyone who gets this early is going to win.

-Like Star Realms you can ramp up a damage, health, or money decks and quickly blow up to 80 health, 10+ coin per turn, or a 20+ damage per turn deck. (last night to my chagrin my opponent when from 2 health to 57 health in three turns while killing me from 60+ health)

-Champions (bases) can become overwhelming. Get enough out and the ally abilities can have your opponent discarding cards and losing their own champions that you're overwhelmed.

-You can run a spoiler deck where you win by forcing your enemy to discard heavily.

-The factions seem balanced, like Star Realms there is an early focus on money and sacrifice (scrap). But if the right cards come up you can do a damage rush and wipe out the other player.

-It seems like luck of the draw in the "market" trade row is a bit more important here.

-The expend nomenclature has no effect at this point and is confusing. Maybe in expansions or the full game it will mean more.

-The cards are harder to differentiate, yellow cards look unfactioned. Star Realms has excellent card differentiation.

-Champions (bases) are hard to tell apart from actions. I would highly suggest that there be some redesign to set them apart. Star Realms and their sideways base layout was genius.

-The artwork is good, just not pronouncedly good at distinguishing between champions and actions, and between the factions.

-Actions play like ships.


So far we're def enjoying it and looking forward to the full release.

(any of you using pencil and paper or the score cards are making your lives hard. Get five pennies, three dimes, and three nickels, put them on a "score card". That's your health. Move health off that card to mark your health. SO MUCH EASIER Same in Star Realms.) Also if you're a big Star Realms fan and like deeper strategy and more combo plays try playing at 70 health starting, it makes the game deeper as you play a longer game and get more fun turns with both players getting to use more powerful cards and combos.)
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Fremont
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Thanks for the detailed impressions of the PnP version.

I am a big fan of the "Epic Scorekeeper" app for iOS. It's both visually appealing, and very simple.
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Dwight Holman
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For Champions, the shields in the corner and ending the turn expended are decent visual indicators, but I agree that the bases in Star Realms were easier to tell apart.

The expend/prepared distinction is really only needed for a single yellow card: "Rally the Troops: 5 combat, 5 health; Ally: prepare a champion." I'm guessing that the expansions will play more with this mechanic, as there's bits in the rules about prepared/expended guards.

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These thoughts are what I kinda was expecting, but are also a bit worrying
 
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Dániel Lányi
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hazenkomraus wrote:


-Scrap (*Ahem Sacrifice*) is super important. So important in fact, that Tyrannor the Devourer (Wrecker equivalent in Star Realms)is a game breaker. Anyone who gets this early is going to win.

-It seems like luck of the draw in the "market" trade row is a bit more important here.

-The expend nomenclature has no effect at this point and is confusing. Maybe in expansions or the full game it will mean more.


Sounds like most of these are just caused by not having the full game. With Epic switching from the PNP to the full game was really weird, they played very different, in fact that's why I'm not PNPing Hero Realms. These games are playtested with the full number of cards, not half of them


hazenkomraus wrote:

Also if you're a big Star Realms fan and like deeper strategy and more combo plays try playing at 70 health starting, it makes the game deeper as you play a longer game and get more fun turns with both players getting to use more powerful cards and combos.)


70 health will make rush strategies not work, and restrain you to obligatory trade federation + machine cult. Just because you are running the engine (your deck) you built longer it's not deeper. In fact it is deeper when you have more limited time so it's a dilemma how much you build (trade + scrap) and how much you score (damage). Also, blue and bases already can prolong the game, if both player go for those, you get a longer game. I know some people like longer games, and I have nothing against house rules, but it just doesn't make it deeper.
Long story short: WWG playtests these games, they have reasons why it's not 70.
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Thomas Staudt
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Domination lets you prepare a Champion, so expending is not completely useless with the PnP set.
 
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Dwight Holman
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wallwaster wrote:

Sounds like most of these are just caused by not having the full game. With Epic switching from the PNP to the full game was really weird, they played very different, in fact that's why I'm not PNPing Hero Realms. These games are playtested with the full number of cards, not half of them


This isn't a reduced PNP like Epic was. It's 144 cards, the same number of cards as indicated in the Kickstarter campaign. Given how close Hero Realms is to shipping, I suspect the PNP is what's going to print, just with some watermarks.
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wallwaster wrote:
70 health will make rush strategies not work, and restrain you to obligatory trade federation + machine cult. Just because you are running the engine (your deck) you built longer it's not deeper. In fact it is deeper when you have more limited time so it's a dilemma how much you build (trade + scrap) and how much you score (damage). Also, blue and bases already can prolong the game, if both player go for those, you get a longer game. I know some people like longer games, and I have nothing against house rules, but it just doesn't make it deeper.
Long story short: WWG playtests these games, they have reasons why it's not 70.


I agree with you on that. Longer games make power turns easier to accomplish, and so make them less interesting as they require less work to achieve. It strips the game of some of the strategies as well, and of a lot of the tension, achieved through the limited scope the game takes place in.
It doesn't work in Ascension, Mystic Vale, or Star Realms.

You have to play several games to get the pace of it. Once you feel how fast the game is, then you can plan accordingly. Adapt to the game. That's what makes you a better player.
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Dániel Lányi
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anonfunc wrote:
wallwaster wrote:

Sounds like most of these are just caused by not having the full game. With Epic switching from the PNP to the full game was really weird, they played very different, in fact that's why I'm not PNPing Hero Realms. These games are playtested with the full number of cards, not half of them


This isn't a reduced PNP like Epic was. It's 144 cards, the same number of cards as indicated in the Kickstarter campaign. Given how close Hero Realms is to shipping, I suspect the PNP is what's going to print, just with some watermarks.


Oh you're right! Sorry. Still, you're getting some promo cards with the KS too.

hazenkomraus wrote:
-Scrap (*Ahem Sacrifice*) is super important. So important in fact, that Tyrannor the Devourer (Wrecker equivalent in Star Realms)is a game breaker. Anyone who gets this early is going to win.


Still sound fishy to me. An early brain world is very strong too. So I looked into this.
In base Star Realms you have:
ships with ability to scrap: 3 trade bots, 3 missile bots, 3 supply, bots, 1 battle mech (10 total)
ships with ally ability to scrap: 2 patrol mech
bases with ability to scrap: 1 junkyard, 1 machine base
bases with ability to double scrap: 1 brain world

In the Hero Realms PNP you have:
actions with ability to scrap: 1 dark reward, 3 death touch, 2 the rot, 1 life drain (7 total)
actions with ally ability to scrap: -
champions with ability to scrap: 1 krythos, 1 lys,
champions with ability to double scrap: 1 tyrannor

Conlusions:
There are less scrappers overall, and especially less cheap scrappers. What surprises me is there are no ally ability scrappers. So scrap might seem or actually be more important because there is less of it.
I didn't count it but there seems to be more draw+discard abilities in Hero Realms green than in base Star Realms yellow, and it seems like there's less drawing effects. This will be superinteresting

But it's maybe i just don't like the word gamebreaking
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hazen komraus
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Upon another two days of playing:

Scrap is still pretty important compared to SRs.

Rushes are easier and more successful with green AND you tend to get a "Target player discard a card" attack with green.

You can do the opposite and make some insane health rushes with yellow.

I have not figured out where blue can come in as an equal faction, def seems weakest despite it's loading of your deck and hand.

Red with scrap and serious damage is a good rush or general strategy

I think that focusing on champions is a valid strategy just like focusing on bases could be a strategy in SRs... at times.

Money is nearly identical to SRs in strategizing.

I still think expend doesn't mean anything yet. They could simply have said play target champion again, like in SRs.

We've had some crazy games. We had one where i ended up winning with 127 health and my opponent really wasn't playing badly! I also lost a game in four hands. It's def faster and more intense in building a strategy. In no way does it seem inferior or too derivative to be interesting. But i am a huge SRs fan.

Looking forward to the class starter decks and expansions.

FWIW Maybe Tyrannor isn't a game breaker, but like Brain World it can lead to a lot of groans early in a game. Thankfully i'm seeing that there are so many action cards with heavy damage that you could buy those specifically to target that card. The weighting in price between actions and champions of near identical actions and damage is quite stark, i'm still trying to suss out how to balance which to purchase because the actions are often half the price, i guess that can lead to more strategy flexibility.
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