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Scythe» Forums » General

Subject: One Path to Victory? Not a Chance! rss

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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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So for those who are suggesting that this game pushes you into a single path for victory based on your starting faction/player mat I present some conflicting evidence. I played a 2-player (plus one Automa) game with my regular Scythe partner today. I was the first to six stars and missed the victory by ONE HEX! I managed to achieve this feat as Polania without building a single mech. That's right, not only is "riverwalk" not a mandatory purchase to reach victory, I proclaim that a victory is possible without building any mechs at all! I didn't win this game, but I was 3 points away from being the winner.

I got stars for buildings, enlists, objective, workers, max popularity and one combat victory.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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2 questions that will inevitably pop up :
- How did you get a combat star without ever building a mech?
- What was the player mat you had?
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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tublefou wrote:
2 questions that will inevitably pop up :
- How did you get a combat star without ever building a mech?
- What was the player mat you had?


1 - My character won a combat.
2 - I had the patriotic player mat.
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Philip Morton
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
So for those who are suggesting that this game pushes you into a single path for victory based on your starting faction/player mat I present some conflicting evidence.

Quote:
I managed to achieve this feat as Polania without building a single mech. That's right, not only is "riverwalk" not a mandatory purchase to reach victory, I proclaim that a victory is possible without building any mechs at all!

But....there are definitely some player mats that don't really encourage you to build mechs--Agricultural and Engineering both have a fairly bad mech-building action. If you had one of them, I'm not sure I'd say you were bucking the "pushed into one path based on your faction/mat" idea.

Though it does complicate the "thing that Polania wants you to do", which is get a bunch of encounters. Did you get many encounters (maybe a factory card substituted for Speed)?

Edit: With Patriotic? Okay, the mat definitely wasn't telling you not to make mechs then...now I'm more interested in the details. Enlist+Upgrade and use your wood production to make Trade+Structure a three-popularity action?
 
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
1 - My character won a combat.
2 - I had the patriotic player mat.

Yeah, I forgot about the character. Silly me!
The patriotic mat is much more interesting, as the build mech action is very profitable money-wise while the build structure is very poor.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Chrondeath wrote:

But....there are definitely some player mats that don't really encourage you to build mechs--Agricultural and Engineering both have a fairly bad mech-building action. If you had one of them, I'm not sure I'd say you were bucking the "pushed into one path based on your faction/mat" idea.

Though it does complicate the "thing that Polania wants you to do", which is get a bunch of encounters. Did you get many encounters (maybe a factory card substituted for Speed)?


Given that I had patriotic which provides a 3 coin bonus with a deploy action, I was definitely bucking the "one path" idea!

I got three encounters total.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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One of the reasons I was so successful was that I managed to get all my enlists out very early. I got a very large number of bonuses from this.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Chrondeath wrote:
Edit: With Patriotic? Okay, the mat definitely wasn't telling you not to make mechs then...now I'm more interested in the details. Enlist+Upgrade and use your wood production to make Trade+Structure a three-popularity action?


That was part of how it went down. I got all of my enlists out quickly by using trade to get oil for upgrades (which I took from movement and production first and put on enlist), while producing food. This led to my first star for enlist actions.

I then switched to wood production, still on my own peninsula, with a few more trades to get oil to upgrade my building action and actually execute the building action. I built three buildings, had 7 popularity and 0 mechs which got me my second star for an objective.

I was still slipping in the occasional trade action to get popularity and oil for upgrades.

Then I moved to the village and produced all my workers. Third star.

At this point I was still on my own peninsula and nowhere else. I was too far for either of the other factions to reach me without a concerted effort.

Being quite late in the game, I finally used the Mine I had built to enter the rest of the world. I built my last building (fourth star) on one of the two workers that had traveled through the mine. My character picked up two more encounters (traveling south and west from the Tunnel closest to Polania) which pushed my popularity to maximum (fifth star). The other two factions were very close to ending the game so I used my character to jump into combat with a Rusviet mech. I had a stack of about 14 combat cards so I definitely had a 5, and my power was at 12. The Rusviets had just been in a combat with Saxony so their power was only at 3. I won the combat and gained my sixth star to end the game.

When we tallied up points, I was only 3 points out of first place. I had 67 points, the Rusviets had 65 and Saxony had 70. If I had one more territory I would have won the game.
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Tim Royal
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So one question, reading the overview of how your game played out, is how much of an impact the mat is as to whether you can pull off the same strategy.

Haven't played enough to really tell, but was curious of your thoughts on the mat dictating the feasibility of one's strategy.

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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Auzette wrote:
So one question, reading the overview of how your game played out, is how much of an impact the mat is as to whether you can pull off the same strategy.

Haven't played enough to really tell, but was curious of your thoughts on the mat dictating the feasibility of one's strategy.



The mats definitely provide a little encouragement towards certain directions at the beginning of the game, but they don't cut off access to others. I am 20 games in to playing Scythe now and I have learned that the way other players in your game are developing their factions is as much, if not more, of a factor as which player mat you get in determining what a successful strategy will be.

You can play this game like "multiplayer solitaire" if you want, but it only takes one player paying attention to the strategy and movement of other factions and the "solitaire" players will start to consistently lose.

My mat highly encouraged the deploy action, with 3 coins given, but I never used it. I find, especially if you spend the first couple of turns trading/producing for oil and then upgrading, that you can tailor whatever mat you get to a different strategy if you choose to do so. By upgrading my building and enlist actions (which were both high cost actions in terms of resources pre-upgrade) I enabled an entirely different strategy with the mat I had.

If other players are not paying attention to what your mat is encouraging you to do, you may end up going that way. However, if other players are paying attention, they can start to seriously disrupt your strategy at key points in the game. What appear to be minor "interruptions" to a developed engine can actually set a player back many turns.

In the game I talk about in the OP, both other factions were quick to get mechs out and quick to leave their home peninsulas. I could have joined in the arms race, but I found an alternative strategy where I stayed close to home for almost 3/4 of the game but still managed to be the first to 6 stars and the only one with top tier popularity. Only a strategic mistake in placing one of my workers kept me from winning. If the other factions hadn't deployed so heavily in the early game, and hadn't spread so far so early, I would have chosen a totally different strategy. The mat I was handed at the beginning of the game ended up being relatively unrelated to the strategy I ended up using. It is one of the joys of such a customizable engine!
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Pas L
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Well, it's sorted then. This one guy did something in one game against who knows what. Call off the discussion!
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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lamaros wrote:
Well, it's sorted then. This one guy did something in one game against who knows what. Call off the discussion!


I have actually played 20 games and in all that time I have never felt "hemmed in" by my player mat. This post is in no way meant to end the discussion, it is just my opinion based on my experience, which is as valid as all the people who have declared the game "boring" after playing one game because they have no "real choices"!

And as for "against who knows what" I described in pretty good detail above what my competitors were up to. If you want more detail you could ask instead of posting unproductive and sarcastic responses, but totally up to you. You can be unproductive and sarcastic if you like, it's a free world

You can feel free to disagree with my opinion, but your post doesn't really do your argument much justice

Cheers,
The Rev
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Pas L
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Pierre
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
One of the reasons I was so successful was that I managed to get all my enlists out very early. I got a very large number of bonuses from this.

I try to get the popularity and coin enlists early and often too, regardless of player mat. Especially the popularity boosts spare me pursuing popularity myself (such as using bolster for it) and makes picking the third encounter choice a bit less punishing if the outcome is too seductive.
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M Niggel
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I have to agree.

I played a game where I followed the mat as much as possible. My opponent didn't focus on the high return items on her mat. I did everything Crimea/Patriotic "tells" you to do (basically free 4-coin deploys!)... and lost.

It was a $1 difference, so obviously there's value in that path, but it definitely is not the only viable option.
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Tim Royal
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lamaros wrote:
Well, it's sorted then. This one guy did something in one game against who knows what. Call off the discussion!


Uh, ok. The Scythe forums are chock full of game play sessions, rules assistance, strategy advice, and helpful information from the OP, so I don't think the one-liner came off either witty or informed.

Happy gaming.
 
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Pas L
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Auzette wrote:
lamaros wrote:
Well, it's sorted then. This one guy did something in one game against who knows what. Call off the discussion!


Uh, ok. The Scythe forums are chock full of game play sessions, rules assistance, strategy advice, and helpful information from the OP, so I don't think the one-liner came off either witty or informed.

Happy gaming.


I'm sure the headline "Scythe Aficionado Defends Scythe" will convert all those on the fence.

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Tim Royal
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lamaros wrote:
Auzette wrote:
lamaros wrote:
Well, it's sorted then. This one guy did something in one game against who knows what. Call off the discussion!


Uh, ok. The Scythe forums are chock full of game play sessions, rules assistance, strategy advice, and helpful information from the OP, so I don't think the one-liner came off either witty or informed.

Happy gaming.


I'm sure the headline "Scythe Aficionado Defends Scythe" will convert all those on the fence.



It certainly lends relevant credit to those who appreciate the investment and activity of said posts.

 
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