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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Parting Gifts on Beorn? rss

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Dragomir Anachkov
Bulgaria
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Can Parting Gifts add resources to Beorn's resource pool? I think the effect triggers since it targets Beorn's resource pool and not Beorn himself. I couldn't find anywhere a specific answer to this question. What do you think?
 
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Robin Munn

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No, you can't use Parting Gifts to target Beorn. Targeting a hero's resource pool is forbidden by "Immune to player card effects" just as targeting the hero would be. Let's look at the (extensive) FAQ entry for "Immune to player card effects" to confirm that:

FAQ wrote:
(1.47) “Immune to player card effects”, expanded

Cards with the text “Immune to player card effects” ignore the effects of all player cards. This means that player card effects cannot directly influence or interact with a card that is immune to player card effects. Examples include dealing damage to an enemy, placing progress on a location, altering a card’s text or statistics, moving a card, engaging an enemy, traveling to a location, or discarding a card.

However, a card that is immune to player card effects can still be affected by normal framework effects such as placing progress from questing successfully, engaging an enemy during the encounter phase, or dealing damage through an attack made by a character.

For example: Pippin’s (TBR 4) passive ability cannot increase the engagement cost of an enemy that is immune to player card effects, because that enemy will ignore Pippin’s effect. However, if you engage an enemy who is immune to player card effects and has an engagement cost higher than your threat, you may still use Pippin’s Response to draw a card, because this response is not affecting the enemy in any way.

Additionally, cards that are immune to player card effects cannot be chosen as targets of player card effects. This means that any player card that uses a form of the words “target” or “choose” cannot choose a card that is immune to player card effects as its target. This includes the “attach to...” text of any player attachment. Player cards that do not use the word “target” or “choose” but force the player to choose a specific card cannot choose a card that is immune to player card effects.

For example: Hands Upon the Bow (D 131) cannot be used to attack an enemy that is immune to player card effects, because it clearly indicates that the player must pick an enemy in the staging area to attack. This is different from Quick Strike (Core 35), which targets a character and allows them to perform a normal attack, which is a framework effect.


Note that it is the card, not the hero or enemy, that is considered immune. That means that you can't say "The hero's resource pool isn't the hero himself" -- because the resource pool is part of the card. So it won't work.

EDIT: It appears I was wrong. There has been an actual ruling on this, and a hero's resource pool is considered separate from the hero and therefore eligible targets even for Beorn. See below. I believe this ruling is inconsistent with the above FAQ entry (which, if I'm not mistaken, was written after that ruling), and that if Caleb was asked that question again, he might reverse his earlier ruling. But as it stands right now, you can target Beorn with Parting Gifts after all.

Though since I think Caleb made a mistake here, I'm not going to use Parting Gifts on Beorn myself.
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Chris Mabry
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Arlington
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rmunn wrote:
No, you can't use Parting Gifts to target Beorn. Targeting a hero's resource pool is forbidden by "Immune to player card effects" just as targeting the hero would be. Let's look at the (extensive) FAQ entry for "Immune to player card effects" to confirm that:

FAQ wrote:
(1.47) “Immune to player card effects”, expanded

Cards with the text “Immune to player card effects” ignore the effects of all player cards. This means that player card effects cannot directly influence or interact with a card that is immune to player card effects. Examples include dealing damage to an enemy, placing progress on a location, altering a card’s text or statistics, moving a card, engaging an enemy, traveling to a location, or discarding a card.

However, a card that is immune to player card effects can still be affected by normal framework effects such as placing progress from questing successfully, engaging an enemy during the encounter phase, or dealing damage through an attack made by a character.

For example: Pippin’s (TBR 4) passive ability cannot increase the engagement cost of an enemy that is immune to player card effects, because that enemy will ignore Pippin’s effect. However, if you engage an enemy who is immune to player card effects and has an engagement cost higher than your threat, you may still use Pippin’s Response to draw a card, because this response is not affecting the enemy in any way.

Additionally, cards that are immune to player card effects cannot be chosen as targets of player card effects. This means that any player card that uses a form of the words “target” or “choose” cannot choose a card that is immune to player card effects as its target. This includes the “attach to...” text of any player attachment. Player cards that do not use the word “target” or “choose” but force the player to choose a specific card cannot choose a card that is immune to player card effects.

For example: Hands Upon the Bow (D 131) cannot be used to attack an enemy that is immune to player card effects, because it clearly indicates that the player must pick an enemy in the staging area to attack. This is different from Quick Strike (Core 35), which targets a character and allows them to perform a normal attack, which is a framework effect.


Note that it is the card, not the hero or enemy, that is considered immune. That means that you can't say "The hero's resource pool isn't the hero himself" -- because the resource pool is part of the card. So it won't work.


This actually is incorrect if I remember correctly. I think it is ridiculous, but there was a ruling that heroes' resource pools are different than the heroes themselves. As such, you ARE allowed to move resources to Beorn. The ruling was in relation to Errand Rider.

Quote:
Hi Richard,
A hero's resource pool belongs to but is separate from the hero. Beorn's immunity to player card effects does not extend to his resource pool. So it is possible to use the Errand-rider to move resources to or from Beorn's resource pool.
Cheers,
Caleb


Source: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/83282-beorn-a...
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Robin Munn

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cmabr002 wrote:
This actually is incorrect if I remember correctly. I think it is ridiculous, but there was a ruling that heroes' resource pools are different than the heroes themselves. As such, you ARE allowed to move resources to Beorn. The ruling was in relation to Errand Rider.

Quote:
Hi Richard,
A hero's resource pool belongs to but is separate from the hero. Beorn's immunity to player card effects does not extend to his resource pool. So it is possible to use the Errand-rider to move resources to or from Beorn's resource pool.
Cheers,
Caleb


Source: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/83282-beorn-a...


Oh, wow. Thanks for catching that; I've updated my earlier post accordingly.

Though since I think Caleb made the wrong call here (which happens VERY rarely; the only other one I can think of that he called wrong was Hands Upon the Bow, which IMHO should count as a Ranged attack), I'm going to house-rule differently for my own games, and say that no, you can't use Parting Gifts on Beorn. (Yes, this hurts the players, but then my house-ruling that Hands Upon the Bow helps them since you could use Bard's ability on that attack. So it's a wash in the end.)
 
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Dragomir Anachkov
Bulgaria
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I'm glad this case has been clarified. These nuances of the rules are sometimes very tricky to interpret. Thanks for the help, guys!
 
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Dale Stephenson
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Buford
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I'm guessing it's because the resource pool (by rule) isn't actually on the hero, but is merely placed near it. That's not what I do (I plop the resources right on), but the rules say not to.
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