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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: How to Buy In? rss

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Wally West
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I played a short demo at GenCon. With the demise of the COC LCG this seems like a natural option, but at the same time I don't quite understand optimal buy in for this product.

It's a good game, but my lack of understanding over the collecting and how the LOTR LCG interacts with multiple purchases hurts my understanding of the product.

What is the value of multiple starters? Why does the game go 1-2 players and then 3 players with 2 sets?

Would purchasing 1 of everything ultimately allow me to play with more people as deluxe expansions came out over time?

*edit*
Would 1 of everything qualify as a harder yet purer way to play with a small group?
 
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David Boeren
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Every LCG works pretty similarly. You buy some number of Core sets, and then exactly 1 of each expansion.

There have been differences in how the Cores work over the years as FFG has attempted to find the best balance of card counts. Most LCGs have 2xCores as the "sweet spot".

For Arkham Horror, there is a 2x card limit instead of a 3x card limit. So, each core comes with 1 copy per card. Therefore, buying two Cores will give you what you want, a complete playset.

You will end up with extra tokens and extra copies of the core quests, so in that sense there is a minor amount of waste. If that's too unbearable, you can just buy one. It will hurt your decks early on, but gradually be less of a burden if you keep collecting for a couple years as you'll have other cards you can use instead. Personally I'm getting two though.

As for number of players, that's not necessarily a real number. LotR was theoretically limited by how many threat dials came in a Core. Two dials = two players. But, you could have used something else to track threat. The bigger limitation is the cards. There simply aren't enough cards to make decks for more people. Even more, there aren't NEARLY enough cards to make GOOD decks for that many people because multiple decks will want some of the same cards.

I would expect that two cores will supply up to 4 players but there will be some contention for cards. This is the nature of an LCG. One set of cards supplies one player with unlimited options. As soon as you start dividing the card supply you introduce the chance that two people want the same card. Divide it more ways, more contention. It's up to you what you consider an acceptable level of contention.
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Rob Rob
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dboeren wrote:

There have been differences in how the Cores work over the years as FFG has attempted to find the best balance of card counts. Most LCGs have 2xCores as the "sweet spot".

For Arkham Horror, there is a 2x card limit instead of a 3x card limit. So, each core comes with 1 copy per card. Therefore, buying two Cores will give you what you want, a complete playset.

You will end up with extra tokens and extra copies of the core quests, so in that sense there is a minor amount of waste. If that's too unbearable, you can just buy one. It will hurt your decks early on, but gradually be less of a burden if you keep collecting for a couple years as you'll have other cards you can use instead. Personally I'm getting two though.

As for number of players, that's not necessarily a real number. LotR was theoretically limited by how many threat dials came in a Core. Two dials = two players. But, you could have used something else to track threat. The bigger limitation is the cards. There simply aren't enough cards to make decks for more people. Even more, there aren't NEARLY enough cards to make GOOD decks for that many people because multiple decks will want some of the same cards.

I really prefer the 2x card limit over 3x. In buying a second core you have a minimal amount of waste, even for LotR. Except for a handful of 1x cards, the third set of LotR was almost all waste.
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Nigel McNaughton
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I'll be in for two, but until we get the final rules and the final cards in hand it's going to be very hard to evaluate the actual necessity of those extra copies.

I should add that FFG is not expecting the average person to pick up 2 copies. That's reserved for us slightly bent people. So game wise everything needs to work with 1 set.
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David Boeren
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If you're an LCG player that likes to tinker around with deck designs almost as much as actually playing the game, you'll want two. If you're mainly a boardgamer or are otherwise not that into deck design, then one should be OK provided that you are playing with 1-2 people.
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Bille mann
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Robrob wrote:
dboeren wrote:

There have been differences in how the Cores work over the years as FFG has attempted to find the best balance of card counts. Most LCGs have 2xCores as the "sweet spot".

For Arkham Horror, there is a 2x card limit instead of a 3x card limit. So, each core comes with 1 copy per card. Therefore, buying two Cores will give you what you want, a complete playset.

You will end up with extra tokens and extra copies of the core quests, so in that sense there is a minor amount of waste. If that's too unbearable, you can just buy one. It will hurt your decks early on, but gradually be less of a burden if you keep collecting for a couple years as you'll have other cards you can use instead. Personally I'm getting two though.

As for number of players, that's not necessarily a real number. LotR was theoretically limited by how many threat dials came in a Core. Two dials = two players. But, you could have used something else to track threat. The bigger limitation is the cards. There simply aren't enough cards to make decks for more people. Even more, there aren't NEARLY enough cards to make GOOD decks for that many people because multiple decks will want some of the same cards.

I really prefer the 2x card limit over 3x. In buying a second core you have a minimal amount of waste, even for LotR. Except for a handful of 1x cards, the third set of LotR was almost all waste.


You're absolutely right. The third one was for 10 cards? Maybe more soblue

A better idea would have been to make a POD-pack for the 2nd and 3rd cards. But ok I bought it.
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Tom Colddie
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You are right. However, in case of games where there are no official tournaments (or official events like LoTR sometimes has), you can always proxy the doubles you are missing in your deck. I got big into Netrunner a few years back and am playing a lot since, I have huge fun deckbuilding and have all the datapacks up-to-date but never bothered to buy a x2 or x3 core. I was never a big problem and now I rarely even remember I do not have all the cards. Then again, I was never interested in tournament play.

Hence, I plan to buy a single core. Once a few expansions are out, the lack of second copy of core will be much less painful.

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Alan Castree
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dboeren wrote:
Every LCG works pretty similarly. You buy some number of Core sets, and then exactly 1 of each expansion.

There have been differences in how the Cores work over the years as FFG has attempted to find the best balance of card counts. Most LCGs have 2xCores as the "sweet spot".

For Arkham Horror, there is a 2x card limit instead of a 3x card limit. So, each core comes with 1 copy per card. Therefore, buying two Cores will give you what you want, a complete playset.

You will end up with extra tokens and extra copies of the core quests, so in that sense there is a minor amount of waste. If that's too unbearable, you can just buy one. It will hurt your decks early on, but gradually be less of a burden if you keep collecting for a couple years as you'll have other cards you can use instead. Personally I'm getting two though.

As for number of players, that's not necessarily a real number. LotR was theoretically limited by how many threat dials came in a Core. Two dials = two players. But, you could have used something else to track threat. The bigger limitation is the cards. There simply aren't enough cards to make decks for more people. Even more, there aren't NEARLY enough cards to make GOOD decks for that many people because multiple decks will want some of the same cards.

I would expect that two cores will supply up to 4 players but there will be some contention for cards. This is the nature of an LCG. One set of cards supplies one player with unlimited options. As soon as you start dividing the card supply you introduce the chance that two people want the same card. Divide it more ways, more contention. It's up to you what you consider an acceptable level of contention.


Something just came to mind; since you'll be able to add "leveled up" versions of the same card, if you add that and the lower level card would that meet the 2x deck limit?
 
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Alan Newman
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Disclaimer: I am the designer's Dad.

I'm ordering two sets. I intend to play both solitaire (Right now in a long recovery from surgery) and will play four players with the guys/gals on Weekly Friday game nights after I'm fully recovered.

In the past, our coops were typically limited to games like Shadows Over Camelot, but in recent years that has changed and I'm positive Arkham the Card Game will go over very well.

A couple of Legacy games have entered our rotation, so the Campaign mode in Arkham with its Legacy aspect will be very interesting.

And now we patiently wait.......!

Regards,

Alan Newman (also a designer), proud Dad of Matthew Newman
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David Boeren
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ACGalaga wrote:
Something just came to mind; since you'll be able to add "leveled up" versions of the same card, if you add that and the lower level card would that meet the 2x deck limit?


Card identity is by name, so yes - one level 0 card plus one level 1 (or whatever) copy of the same card would be two total copies. Of course you'd need enough XP to afford the leveled up version.

2x is a maximum limit, not a minimum one, so you're not required to have that many. You're just allowed to if you want.
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Russ Weaver
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I think the biggest question we have is how many of the "core" cards like "flashlight" will be in the core box. It seems like a card every deck will want 2 of so if the core set only has 2 copies there would still be some contention in a 4 player group for the cards.

I personally wont likely play with more than 2 so not a big deal to me most likely and I would rather the core set not have 4 copies of the card so that every deck can have 2 copies. That would be a waste to many people.

In the end till we have an exact card list we dont really know, we also need to see how many basic core cards like flashlight are needed to negate basic adverse conditions. I am sure if people are playing in 4 player groups then they will find a reason to need more than 2 core sets to avoid card contention. I personally wont buy more than 2 regardless as I only want the option to play 4 player and will build decks around that as I need to until the card pool enlarges.
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mathew rynich
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It would be interesting to see the card count. In other LCG core sets neutral cards came in quantities enough for two decks to include them. I'd suspect if each faction's cards are 1x per core the neutral cards will be 2x per core. Since each investigator will have a primary and secondary faction you'll most likely be able to find 2 investigators with no overlaps. Therefore 2 cores will probably be more than perfect for 2 players. I think that's a safe assumption based on LCG core set history. 4 players you'll probably have to coordinate a bit to make those four decks since there will be more overlap. Therefore their will be more competition for cards perceived as auto includes.

Add: It's awesome that Matt Newman's dad is in this thread. I love the new content for LOTR LCG. Matt and Caleb have been killing it lately with that game. Tell Matt he's doing an awesome job.
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Jason Brown
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Tvaru wrote:
Hence, I plan to buy a single core. Once a few expansions are out, the lack of second copy of core will be much less painful.

I was thinking the same thing, I'm buying one core.
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Tyler Howsare
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RussRN wrote:
I think the biggest question we have is how many of the "core" cards like "flashlight" will be in the core box. It seems like a card every deck will want 2 of so if the core set only has 2 copies there would still be some contention in a 4 player group for the cards.

That's a good point. My expectation at this time is that it will be similar to the model for Conquest, which had 2 copies of each neutral card and only one copy of most faction cards.
 
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Wally West
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"My Solution"- After some hard debate and some thoughtful imput from this thread.

X1 Starter- x1 Of Each Expansion

Reasoning: It's a Horror Game, Scarcity and Multiple Cards

Horror- Just because you both need an axe to fight the Shoggoth, does not mean there are suddenly two axes... Scarcity fuels tension, tension fuels anxiety, anxiety fuels horror. By limiting the supplies and options in the game world you make life harsher and provide a backdrop for the adventure.

One Master- Lv1 and Lv2 fireball means you can have 2 fireballs in the group, however they are not equal. This means you have a choice to split this asset- but by the very nature of the single box design you can not have two high level fireballs.

"We have acquired new artifacts"- at the beginning it will mean the investigators are very weak... But as the game expands their ability to fight will broaden as well. This progression is part of the LCG experience, and should be experienced as a curve.
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