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Tragedy Looper: Cosmic Evil» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some summary sheet errata rss

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Josh Bonner
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Prime Evil isn't out in Japan yet for comparison, but there are two plot rules listed in the rulebook that don't appear on the summary sheet.

Main Plot: The Noble Bloodline
[Script creation] The Key Person and Vampire must have opposite genders.

Subplot: The Key Girl
[Script creation] The Key Person must be a girl.

Also, the incident "The Executioner" is shared between Prime Evil and Cosmic Mythology, and the Japanese summary sheet for Cosmic Mythology says it should have the <Paranoia limit -1> modifier. I'm assuming it should be the same for Prime Evil.

EDIT:
I didn't notice before, but the rulebook does have the <Paranoia limit -1> rule for The Executioner for both tragedy sets, so it's just the summary sheet that's missing it.
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Roberta Yang
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I'm glad Tragedy Looper has been printed in English, but I really, really wish it had been picked up by someone other than the most lazy and inept publisher on the planet. Jesus christ ZMan, you had an entire year to make sure a single two-sided sheet of paper contained all the text someone told you to put on it, how on earth can you possibly find this so difficult?

This isn't even a translation issue if the rulebook has the correct text, this is literally just ZMan not only failing to copy-paste correctly but also completely failing to proofread despite having had exactly the same problem in the past.
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Christian K
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Lets not be so fast to judge I am sure someone here will know if it is really a mistake.
 
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Simon Lundström
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MythrilCircuit wrote:
Prime Evil isn't out in Japan yet for comparison, but there are two plot rules listed in the rulebook that don't appear on the summary sheet.


The set that F2Z call "Prime Evil" is originaly the tragedy set Haunted Stage. However, it was adjusted for this new release, and the plot you mention isn't even in the original Haunted Stage…

MythrilCircuit wrote:
Main Plot: The Noble Bloodline
[Script creation] The Key Person and Vampire must have opposite genders.


This main plot doesn't exist in the original Haunted Stage, only in the re-release. And yes, this is correct.

MythrilCircuit wrote:
Subplot: The Key Girl
[Script creation] The Key Person must be a girl.

This is also correct. This subplot also doesn't exist in the original Haunted Stage, only in the re-release.

MythrilCircuit wrote:
Also, the incident "The Executioner" is shared between Prime Evil and Cosmic Mythology, and the Japanese summary sheet for Cosmic Mythology says it should have the <Paranoia limit -1> modifier. I'm assuming it should be the same for Prime Evil.

EDIT:
I didn't notice before, but the rulebook does have the <Paranoia limit -1> rule for The Executioner for both tragedy sets, so it's just the summary sheet that's missing it.


Yes, this is so for both the sets, at least in the manuscript I got. (The incident doesn't exist in the original Haunted Stage… this set was really revamped for the re-release, it seems)

So yes, it's just typos on the summary sheet. No biggie, that's very easy to replace.
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Erin Gutter-Owl
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Looks like this has already been corrected on the ZMAN website, if you want to download and print new summary sheets: http://www.zmangames.com/uploads/4/7/1/7/47170931/en-tragedy...

Now if we could only get the latest corrections to Midnight Circle...
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Michael Kirkpatrick
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Zimeon wrote:

So yes, it's just typos on the summary sheet. No biggie, that's very easy to replace.

With all due respect... Although it is easy to re-print the summary sheet on plain paper, it does not yield the same material quality or production value as the original product. A misprinting on production materials is never really "no biggie", because some people really do care about these things.

That being said, of all the information that could be missing from the summary sheet, I would say that script creation info is the least important. Simply because it is not required that you know it for playing the pre-made scenarios, and for those who want to delve deeper into creating scripts, it's reasonable to look in the manual for additional information.

From a consistency stand-point, it would have been nice to have these details on the original summary sheet in the original release... But I'm not bent up about it, I'm just supporting OP for making a valid argument.
 
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Simon Lundström
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TehCupcakes wrote:
Zimeon wrote:

So yes, it's just typos on the summary sheet. No biggie, that's very easy to replace.

With all due respect... Although it is easy to re-print the summary sheet on plain paper, it does not yield the same material quality or production value as the original product. A misprinting on production materials is never really "no biggie", because some people really do care about these things.

That being said, of all the information that could be missing from the summary sheet, I would say that script creation info is the least important. Simply because it is not required that you know it for playing the pre-made scenarios, and for those who want to delve deeper into creating scripts, it's reasonable to look in the manual for additional information.


I felt that it was simpler to print out a page than, say, have flaw on the cards or in the rulebook, that's all.

And I don't think it's these script creation info is un-important to have on this sheet – it's pretty vital information for deduction purposes; say, if the protagonists divulge the Vampire and it's a man, they'll know that the other one is a woman. So it _is_ important, it is.
 
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Roberta Yang
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TehCupcakes wrote:
That being said, of all the information that could be missing from the summary sheet, I would say that script creation info is the least important. Simply because it is not required that you know it for playing the pre-made scenarios, and for those who want to delve deeper into creating scripts, it's reasonable to look in the manual for additional information.

No, the script creation rules are important in gameplay too. Remember Sign with me! from the base game? Imagine how much more difficult it would be if it didn't have the "Key Person must be a Girl" clause.

This isn't the first time they've dropped that sort of Script Creation plot rule; the first expansion had the "Ninja must be a Man" rule from A Manly Fight "Male Confrontation" missing. It was a problem then, and it's a problem now.

Foul Evil also seems to have been renamed Evil Contamination for some reason. Which might be a more accurate translation (I'm guessing the intent is something like "Befouling Evil" or "Evil Befoulment"), but consistency? And why doesn't Cosmic Mythology use [Loss condition: Loop end]? It's instantly recognizable and makes the plot rules a lot easier to scan.

(There's also some odd choices in translation. "The Profound Race" instead of "The Great Race", "Outside God" instead of "Outer God", "Hound Dog Scent" instead of anything at all that doesn't refer to the Hounds of Tindalos as dogs... googling the Cthulhu Mythos for a few minutes would probably have been helpful in translating this one.)
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Simon Lundström
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salty53 wrote:
(There's also some odd choices in translation. "The Profound Race" instead of "The Great Race", "Outside God" instead of "Outer God", "Hound Dog Scent" instead of anything at all that doesn't refer to the Hounds of Tindalos as dogs... googling the Cthulhu Mythos for a few minutes would probably have been helpful in translating this one.)


Those, I can personally claim responsibility for (though of course Z-man were fully free to change all the namings), so if you want to bash someone, you know who
 
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Christian K
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Simon: thanks for your input, I am happy that the mistakes are just in the shet (though no mistakes would of course be better). Would you poke z-man to put the latest corrections of midnight circle on their website? They probably listen to you
 
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Simon Lundström
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I think they're reading this, though… at least Zev used to.

I can send them an email, I guess… but what's the list-up of corrections? The above mentioned, only?
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Erin Gutter-Owl
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As of version 2 on the ZMAN website, I believe the "Black School" plot (Mystery Circle) and the "Faked Suicide" incident (both sets) are the only ones still in need of correction.
 
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Roberta Yang
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It also incorrectly calls the Illusion a "Fabrication" instead of a "Construct". Which luckily doesn't matter in a gameplay sense (yet) (as far as I know), but there's no sense not fixing it.
 
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Josh Bonner
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Oh yeah, in case anyone else was reading the Prime Evil sample scripts and got confused by the mastermind hints in script #5... (Don't read this if you don't want part of the script spoiled.)

Spoiler (click to reveal)
There's a part that says you should "activate the Coward's ability to ignore goodwill" to prevent the Soldier's goodwill ability from being used. The Soldier is actually the Show-off, so that's the ability it's really talking about.
 
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Roberta Yang
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Night of Madness kills the protagonists "after the day has ended". Is this meant to say at Day End? After the day has ended would be "between" days, or arguably even the morning of the following day, but I think the intent is that it happens at Day End so it can cover up with other effects that kill the protagonists at Day End, especially Werewolf. Assuming that it's meant to happen during Day End, the templating on that should probably be cleaned up.
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Roberta Yang
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Another possible mistranslation, but I can't ask without spoilers for script 2:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Mastermind handbook says of the Show-Off, "Make sure that he doesn’t get 2 Paranoia and get killed." But the reference sheet says the Show-Off needs "more than 2" (i.e. 3) paranoia to become killable. So which is the Show-Off's threshold meant to be? 2, or 3?
 
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Simon Lundström
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Oops, that's supposed to be 2, not "more than 2".
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Roberta Yang
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That reminds me, I remember an early fan translation of Midnight Zone mentioning that the Fated Connections and Dice of the Gods plot rules don't stack (i.e. even with both in play you'd still get only one extra card, like a role with Max 1). ZMan's printing has no such rule. Is that a deliberate change (or was the early fan translation just wrong and there was never any such rule to begin with), or is that possibly another missing rule?
 
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Roberta Yang
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Zimeon wrote:
Oops, that's supposed to be 2, not "more than 2".

Are there plans to fix this on the online summary sheet?
 
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Jim Jones
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salty53 wrote:
(There's also some odd choices in translation. "The Profound Race" instead of "The Great Race", "Outside God" instead of "Outer God", "Hound Dog Scent" instead of anything at all that doesn't refer to the Hounds of Tindalos as dogs... googling the Cthulhu Mythos for a few minutes would probably have been helpful in translating this one.)


Do these just show up on the summary sheet and the masterminds book? i.e. would it be much effort to change them?
 
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Roberta Yang
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Uthred wrote:
Do these just show up on the summary sheet and the masterminds book? i.e. would it be much effort to change them?

They also show up on the Mastermind information card and (in Hound Dog Scent's case) the open information card too.
 
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Jim Jones
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salty53 wrote:
They also show up on the Mastermind information card and (in Hound Dog Scent's case) the open information card too.


That's annoying, I mean its not the end of the world but its the kind of minor irritation that'll grate every time I see it.
 
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Christian K
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So what exactly do I need to play this expansion? Is there an up to date hseet somewhere? Are there mistakes in the master mind book? (Will be co-players be confused if they play the master mind and read in the book? They will probably if there are mistakes).

I hope someone can help and that z man have posted the newest sheet. These mistakes are not great but if they at least post the corrected sheet it is playable.
 
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Roberta Yang
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Muemmelmann wrote:
So what exactly do I need to play this expansion? Is there an up to date hseet somewhere? Are there mistakes in the master mind book? (Will be co-players be confused if they play the master mind and read in the book? They will probably if there are mistakes).

I hope someone can help and that z man have posted the newest sheet. These mistakes are not great but if they at least post the corrected sheet it is playable.

The online summary sheet fixes the mistakes listed in this thread's OP. Those mistakes are only on the printed summary sheet; the rulebook should already have the correct text.

In addition, the Show-Off's threshold to switch from unkillable to refusing goodwill should be 2 or more paranoia, not more than 2. This mistake occurs in not only the printed summary sheets but also the printed protagonist rulebook. If you print out ZMan's "corrected" sheet to fix the other errors, you'll still need to fix this one yourself with pen. ZMan has known about this error for months but hasn't bothered fixing it because ZMan is a garbage company.

That's it for the summary sheet, but there's still the individual scripts. Script 2 is broken and doesn't work as intended. My suggested fix is that the mastermind running the script should, without telling the protagonists,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
include a seventh character, giving them the Person role. I recommend the Patient. Don't tell the protagonists that the Patient wasn't part of the original script as written. This is necessary because the mastermind handbook's recommended cover-up is a combination of plots that includes a total of 7 roles, which in the original script fundamentally doesn't work because there are only 6 characters.

Someone was saying Script 7 is a taboo violation, and while I'm not entirely convinced it's completely taboo, it's definitely closer to that direction than I would like if the mastermind uses a certain trick. It's probably best for gameplay if masterminds of that script avoid abusing a certain tactic; specifically, they should refrain from
Spoiler (click to reveal)
playing Forbid Goodwill on the Class Rep while the EX Gauge is at 0.
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Christian K
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Puh that is a mouthful. Thanks for the thorough summary!! Geekgold given.

I cannot believe that Z-man wouldn't update it (I would even expect them to update the master mind rulebook). They are such a big company, something like this should really be expected, it is the least they could do after such a large ammount of errors.
 
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