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Panzer (second edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Track damage and AP hit modifiers rss

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John McLintock
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This came up when I was trying the game solitaire earlier. Does track damage count for the -20 shooter damaged AP hit modifier? I ruled that it does, seeing as how taking track damage can force the crew to bailout.
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Fernando Sola Ramos
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Those states have nothing to do with each other apart from the bail out check, so no, a track hit vehicle doesn't count for the shooter damaged modifier.
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John McLintock
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That makes sense Fernando, thanks for that. The mistake didn't make any difference in the end: the Germans still got slaughtered in a Russian demonstration of the use of cover as a force equaliser.
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Nadir Elfarra
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JMcL63 wrote:
...demonstration of the use of cover as a force equaliser.


A bigger deal in Panzer/MBT than most people realize!

In 6.5.2.5 of the _MBT_ rules it states this modifier applies in cases of _turret_ damage. I don't see that clarification in the Panzer rules (2015 ed.) though, so it seems to apply to any damage in that game.
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John McLintock
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I don't have MBT Nadir: I can't understand that rules reference and so don't get the point you're making.
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Nadir Elfarra
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JMcL63 wrote:
I don't have MBT Nadir: I can't understand that rules reference and so don't get the point you're making.


Rule text from MBT (2016 ed. downloaded from GMT):
6.5.2.5 AP Hit Modifiers
"Shooter Damaged
If the firing vehicle’s turret was Damaged during a previous turn or previous action during the current turn, the modifier is –3."

Rule text from Panzer (2015 ed. downloaded from GMT):
4.4.3.2.2 AP Hit Modifiers
"Shooter Damaged
If the firing unit was Damaged during a previous turn or previous action during the current turn the modifier is –3."

The point is that the difference could come from one of two things:
1) Designer's intent with Panzer was that any damage (excluding a track hit) results in the Shooter Damaged -3 AP Hit Modifier, or
2) The rule wasn't updated in the re-release of Panzer and the Damaged Shooter -3 modifier should be restricted to vehicles with Turret Damage.

Only Jim can confirm one way or the other.

-Nadir
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John McLintock
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I get what you're saying now Nadir. There's no mention of turret damage in Panzer though, so I don't think that's a factor here. I'm now satisfied that the damage result is a specific result not equated with track hits for the purposes of AP hit modifiers.
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Jim Day
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Specific Hull and Turret damage was added to MBT. That games uses a different Damage counter with Hull and Turret indicators.

If I can make it happen in a reasonable fashion, I'd like to retrofit specific damage to the Panzer series. That may happen with the upcoming Panzer France 1940 expansion.
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