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Thief's Market» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clarification Question on Wicked Clutches rss

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CJ Harris
United States
North Carolina
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We played our first game today at lunch (3 players) and a question arose about the power on the Wicked Clutches card. The rules read: "Whenever your pile is stolen during the "Splitting the Loot" phase, you gain 1 Infamy token."

The disagreement came over whether this happens just once per turn (since there is no infinity symbol) or every time it happens (due to the 'Whenever' in the description).

We played that a player could get tokens multiple times each round, and the player who bought it always grabbed all the dice left in the middle each turn. He racked up several points this way.

I'd love to hear how others have played this card. Thanks!
 
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Greg Wilson
United Kingdom
Bristol
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We played it the same way, but would be interested in an official ruling. It was powerful and annoying, but not game-breaking.
 
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Dave Chalker
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Silver Spring
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Every time your pile is stolen, with no limit. You give up a lot of control in selection in exchange for some points, as well as gambling on how much of the game is left.
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Paul Newsham
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We found the psychological impact to be more significant than the mechanical.
 
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Greg Wilson
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It's probably better-used to take a slightly-greedy share, since it discourages other people from taking it from you.
 
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CJ Harris
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davethegame wrote:
Every time your pile is stolen, with no limit. You give up a lot of control in selection in exchange for some points, as well as gambling on how much of the game is left.


Thanks for the clarification. We enjoyed the first run through. The three of us agreed that the distribution mechanic is ingenious and infuriating at the same time. I look forward to future offerings.
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Greg Wilson
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Can cards like Anthropomorphic Water Buffalo (gain an infamy token whenever you purchase a card with a red gem in the cost) be triggered more than once per round?
 
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Dave Chalker
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BlackSheep wrote:
Can cards like Anthropomorphic Water Buffalo (gain an infamy token whenever you purchase a card with a red gem in the cost) be triggered more than once per round?


Yes they can (and remember they count themselves too.)
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seth van orden
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Madison
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For us the worse part of this card was the extra time it caused the game to take. The player who had the card always took all the dice each time it was his turn. This just extended the game.

I'm not sure I like the card for that reason. The player got a couple extra points each round, but they also sacrificed choice in the gem pile. They always ended up with less ideal piles of dice, because the dice would always get rerolled when returned to the pile. This always seemed to have him rely on the luck of the reroll. With the dice always being rerolled, it made it had to plan what you would do on your turn. Extending the game even more.
 
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Brett MacDonald
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sethvanorden wrote:
For us the worse part of this card was the extra time it caused the game to take. The player who had the card always took all the dice each time it was his turn. This just extended the game.

I'm not sure I like the card for that reason. The player got a couple extra points each round, but they also sacrificed choice in the gem pile. They always ended up with less ideal piles of dice, because the dice would always get rerolled when returned to the pile. This always seemed to have him rely on the luck of the reroll. With the dice always being rerolled, it made it had to plan what you would do on your turn. Extending the game even more.


Yeah... my group got pissed at me and openly colluded against me because I got the card (off a mislabelled potion... not even purchased directly) and proceeded to take the entire middle pile every time (and when stealing back a pile always took the pile with the first player token). I mean the card is basically encouraging you to do this.

It bogged things down a little and made them all really chew over each selection (as every time the pile was stolen it only got one die smaller and that die was rerolled). I looked at them all and said "You guys would totally do the same if you got this card" and they assured me they would not. I still don't believe them but totally see how this card can be problematic. Fun concept for a card but likely one that should have been cut from the game.

BlackSheep wrote:
It's probably better-used to take a slightly-greedy share, since it discourages other people from taking it from you.


Not really... basically my group knew that unless I ended up with atleast the average expected number of resources (in my game it was 4 dice) I would steal. There was no reason not to. One turn I really wanted to buy a specific thing and just took the first player token and 2 gems... and they happily let me do that... but the majority of the time I was better served making them steal from me 3 times (on average) and ending up with a slightly above average pile (but not necessarily the best/optimal mix I could get otherwise). I basically was weighing 3 infamy points and 4 random dice... vs buying one targetted card... and in most cases the 3 points and 4 random dice won out.
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United States
Austin
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It is an irritating card that can produce a lot of points if it comes out early enough in the 2nd round. It is irritating enough to be unfun. Since winning is my goal, I set up to buy it if it will be worth it. But since playing is a requirement to win and the card is unfun for 75% of the players in the game (the ones who don't have it), the choice I made was to just remove it from the B deck.
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Brad103
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Skaneateles
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I think my group isn't as 'aggressive' with this game and with this card.

My first game getting this card I really only 'grabbed the pile' once or twice, most times I was able to get the dice I needed so didn't want to be stolen from.
Another time, no one even bought the card

Regardless of those examples though, ya it is powerful and somewhat 'unfun'. But it's nice that you can easily remove it from the deck without messing up anything in the game (since removing cards before you start is part of the setup).
 
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Greg Wilson
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eflin wrote:
It bogged things down a little and made them all really chew over each selection (as every time the pile was stolen it only got one die smaller and that die was rerolled).

(snip)

... but the majority of the time I was better served making them steal from me 3 times (on average) and ending up with a slightly above average pile


Oh, this came up in another thread. Are you aware that when stealing, you have to put at least one item back in the middle, but can put back more than one?
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Brett MacDonald
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Hahahaha. Totally missed that. thanks for the heads up. That likely would have made me only have 2 infamy per turn instead of 3... so not as bad... but still similar. It still creates a scenario where I'm going to be overly greedy and force them to accept I'm getting more than my fair share of things (or they just keep handing me coins and getting pissed at me as we steal back and forth)... so still not a very fun card IMO.

Thanks again for the heads up though :- )
 
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