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From what I understand when machines or pilgrims enter a battle with trogs in a human controlled territory, they just fight the troggs. But what happens if they lose? Do the trogs remove the human control token or does it stay in their and a new nest is added?
 
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Joe Martineau
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It becomes uncontrolled.


Makes as much sense to me as humans controlling Trog regions in the first place.
 
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Aleks Zuwalski
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It's because Trog tokens are not considered to be figures, meaning that the regions with them are not occupied.
 
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Chris Schenck
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Although the rulebook does not say to do this, I suggest that you make a habit of removing any existing control token whenever you place a battle token.

We started doing this, and it cleared up a LOT of questions regarding special abilities and other timing issues like the one you just asked.
 
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Sergio Perez
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cbs42 wrote:
Although the rulebook does not say to do this, I suggest that you make a habit of removing any existing control token whenever you place a battle token.

We started doing this, and it cleared up a LOT of questions regarding special abilities and other timing issues like the one you just asked.


That's incorrect though, and it could cause further rules confusion as some effects may require control of a region in order to trigger, and that control persists until resolution of the region control aspect of the battle.

The reason the human control marker is removed in the OPs initial question is because when another faction enters a controlled territory (when minis move in), if the controlling faction does not have any minis in the territory, they immediately lose control.
 
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Ignacy Trzewiczek
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This situation is precisely explained in the FAQ.
Humans lose control over the region. Rules say: Control over Region is taken by the player who won Control Region objective.
 
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Chris Schenck
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Surge1000 wrote:
cbs42 wrote:
Although the rulebook does not say to do this, I suggest that you make a habit of removing any existing control token whenever you place a battle token.

We started doing this, and it cleared up a LOT of questions regarding special abilities and other timing issues like the one you just asked.


That's incorrect though, and it could cause further rules confusion as some effects may require control of a region in order to trigger, and that control persists until resolution of the region control aspect of the battle.

Could it? Can you explain one situation where removing the control marker when placing the battle marker would cause an incorrect outcome with the rules? I'm not being combative here. I'm genuinely interested if you know of a situation where this would cause a problem.

Because I know of situations where removal of the control marker actually clears up rule questions.


In fact...

trzewik wrote:
Rules say: Control over Region is taken by the player who won Control Region objective.

In a 2-3 player game, no player controls the Trogs, which means the Trogs can't take control of the region, since they can't place control markers at all. So I guess in this case, the Human control marker is just removed, but no one else's control marker is added. This leaves the area uncontrolled.

See, the problem is that nothing in the rulebook or FAQ ever talks about removing control tokens. The obvious assumption is that it's removed when a new one is placed. But when a new one isn't getting placed, then it gets a little less clear, but I guess you just remove the old one anyway.

This is not a situation directly addressed by the rulebook or the FAQ, but would be cleared up with my suggestion of removing the control marker whenever a battle token is placed. There are several other situations that are similarly clarified by removing the control marker when the battle token is placed. I think it makes thematic sense too: Who controls a battle region? The answer should be "no one" until the battle is resolved, since the control is currently being contested.
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Chevee Dodd
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cbs42 wrote:

Could it? Can you explain one situation where removing the control marker when placing the battle marker would cause an incorrect outcome with the rules? I'm not being combative here. I'm genuinely interested if you know of a situation where this would cause a problem.


Machines using Bunker. They wouldn't be able as they don't have control of the Region anymore.

Humans using their Default Skill to score controlled regions.
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Chris Schenck
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Fair enough!
cool

 
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Brian K
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This is an incredibly important clarification that I hope Ignacy and Grant will help us with. In a 2-3 player, if the humans (or a non-involved faction) control a region, and a battle breaks out between trogs and machines (for example), what happens to that human control token of trogs win? This single clarification alone could balance the perceived overpowered humans in a 2/3 player game. I am hoping they say that the human control token is immediately removed once a battle zone is declared that they are not a part of.
 
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Dustin Boatman
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As soon as someone moves into a region that has a control token from another player and that person doesn't have minis in the region, control is lost. This goes for battle or non battle regions. Only way a control token stays through a battle is if one of the factions in the battle is the controlling faction.
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Brian K
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Thanks Dustin. Sorry to be picky, but I can't find that in the rules or FAQ.
 
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Grant Rodiek
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Pathosis wrote:
As soon as someone moves into a region that has a control token from another player and that person doesn't have minis in the region, control is lost. This goes for battle or non battle regions. Only way a control token stays through a battle is if one of the factions in the battle is the controlling faction.


Dustin is right.
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Brian K
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Awesome and thank you Grant! I just texted my buddy to let him know that the machines are not broken and I retroactively won last night !!
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Van Willis
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HerrohGrant wrote:
Pathosis wrote:
As soon as someone moves into a region that has a control token from another player and that person doesn't have minis in the region, control is lost. This goes for battle or non battle regions. Only way a control token stays through a battle is if one of the factions in the battle is the controlling faction.


Dustin is right.


Great to get this clarification and it makes sense mechanically but I think it would be a good item to include in the next version of the FAQ as it isn't clear in the current rules or FAQ. (Or please point me to the passage of the rules or FAQ that does cover this since I can't seem to find it).
 
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Grant Rodiek
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Vantastic wrote:
HerrohGrant wrote:
Pathosis wrote:
As soon as someone moves into a region that has a control token from another player and that person doesn't have minis in the region, control is lost. This goes for battle or non battle regions. Only way a control token stays through a battle is if one of the factions in the battle is the controlling faction.


Dustin is right.


Great to get this clarification and it makes sense mechanically but I think it would be a good item to include in the next version of the FAQ as it isn't clear in the current rules or FAQ. (Or please point me to the passage of the rules or FAQ that does cover this since I can't seem to find it).


Something I want to work on this week is an FAQ for every Skill and Structure in the game, with examples. There are a lot of combinations, so it may not suss out EVERY case, but it should help you guys.
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Dustin Boatman
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That is a huge thumbs up from me Grant!
 
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Grant Rodiek
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Pathosis wrote:
That is a huge thumbs up from me Grant!


Working on it now
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Chris Schenck
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HerrohGrant wrote:
FAQ for every Skill and Structure in the game, with examples.

This is fantastic news.
cool
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Grant Rodiek
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cbs42 wrote:
HerrohGrant wrote:
FAQ for every Skill and Structure in the game, with examples.

This is fantastic news.
cool


Finished a draft last night. Tried to fill it with examples and clarifications and all that goodness. I'll find out what the plan is. Portal has it, just have to figure out where it goes!
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Dustin Boatman
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Awesome Grant! Looks like I have some printing and laminating to do in the near future, lol.
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David Kovar
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Any news on that FAQ update with Structures / Skills?
Looking forward to it.
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Grant Rodiek
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DevilDave wrote:
Any news on that FAQ update with Structures / Skills?
Looking forward to it.


I'll follow up. They've been crazy busy finalizing the game for retail and pre-orders. IF NEED BE I'll work with them to release an ugly basic version if they don't have bandwidth to make a purty version.
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