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Marquis DeSade
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Hi everyone,

I am resuming work on a mobile suit variant for x-wing and the flightpath rules set. I was hoping to solicit some advice on how to effectively simulate melee combat or jousting in the game (ala gundam's beam sabre duels and such)? I have a bunch of ideas already, but I figured the community here could probably give some yeas or nays to the ones I'm mulling over.

Different ideas:

1. Melee is an Action: after moving, the unit elects Melee as an action. This grants either a free Boost, or Barrel Roll, or (maybe) Evade. Then, after the movement phase, the unit rolls to hit a target within range 1 of the front firing arc. A unit that has selected Melee as its action cannot perform a ranged attack, even if no targets land up within its front range 1.

**This one seems problematic as higher PS pilots can just juke out of the way and shoot the now-committed melee unit.

2. Melee combat just takes over whenever you select a target at range 1. If the targeted unit has already made a ranged attack during the round, it's assumed that they don't have a melee weapon prepared to parry. The attacker gains one additional attack dice in addition to the range 1 bonus. If the target has not performed a ranged attack, they can elect to parry, commit to an attempted melee attack themselves, and negate the attacker's bonus. Parrying affects 360 degrees around the defender, even if they are not positioned correctly for a counter-attack (i.e. the old parry the sword behind the back trick).

**Opposite problem, where high PS during shooting can be a present a liability

3. An attacker that successfully lands a critical hit against an opponent may preposition the target 1 forward measurement unit per uncancelled critical, potentially knocking an opponent out of range of their counter attack.

4. Option: a melee-committed unit can toggle its PS to "0", depending on when it needs its attack to land?

Thanks. I have not looked at how DnD attack wing handles melee. Not sure if there are some good ideas in there, but reviews of the game have seemed so poor that I thought I'd try and cook something up on my own first.

-Andrew
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Angelus Seniores
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you lost me at melee, this game isnt about lightsaber duels.

first, the ships are flying at high speeds
second, most of the pilots arent jedi
third, they're sitting in their enclosed cockpit, not on top of the ship nor are there open-topped ships, they're enclosed because they want to keep the breathable atmosphere in the ship.
fourth, the distances at which they shoot are bigger than you might suspect
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Josh Derksen
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Dolono wrote:
Hi everyone,

I am resuming work on a mobile suit variant for x-wing and the flightpath rules set. I was hoping to solicit some advice on how to effectively simulate melee combat or jousting in the game (ala gundam's beam sabre duels and such)? I have a bunch of ideas already, but I figured the community here could probably give some yeas or nays to the ones I'm mulling over.

Different ideas:

1. Melee is an Action: after moving, the unit elects Melee as an action. This grants either a free Boost, or Barrel Roll, or (maybe) Evade. Then, after the movement phase, the unit rolls to hit a target within range 1 of the front firing arc. A unit that has selected Melee as its action cannot perform a ranged attack, even if no targets land up within its front range 1.

**This one seems problematic as higher PS pilots can just juke out of the way and shoot the now-committed melee unit.

2. Melee combat just takes over whenever you select a target at range 1. If the targeted unit has already made a ranged attack during the round, it's assumed that they don't have a melee weapon prepared to parry. The attacker gains one additional attack dice in addition to the range 1 bonus. If the target has not performed a ranged attack, they can elect to parry, commit to an attempted melee attack themselves, and negate the attacker's bonus. Parrying affects 360 degrees around the defender, even if they are not positioned correctly for a counter-attack (i.e. the old parry the sword behind the back trick).

**Opposite problem, where high PS during shooting can be a present a liability

3. An attacker that successfully lands a critical hit against an opponent may preposition the target 1 forward measurement unit per uncancelled critical, potentially knocking an opponent out of range of their counter attack.

4. Option: a melee-committed unit can toggle its PS to "0", depending on when it needs its attack to land?

Thanks. I have not looked at how DnD attack wing handles melee. Not sure if there are some good ideas in there, but reviews of the game have seemed so poor that I thought I'd try and cook something up on my own first.

-Andrew


Option 2 is your best bet, I think. Similar to how secondary weapons work in X-wing, just make Melee attacks a Range 1 only weapon, and maybe some Ranged Attacks are like Torpedoes, so that they don't work at Range 1. All the pilot skill mess works out the same way as X-wing.
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Marquis DeSade
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Angelsenior wrote:
you lost me at melee, this game isnt about lightsaber duels.

first, the ships are flying at high speeds
second, most of the pilots arent jedi
third, they're sitting in their enclosed cockpit, not on top of the ship nor are there open-topped ships, they're enclosed because they want to keep the breathable atmosphere in the ship.
fourth, the distances at which they shoot are bigger than you might suspect


I am soliciting advice on translating the X-Wing RULES, not ships, to a different sci fi setting, one with big, bipedal robots shooting and light sabre dueling. This variant is not attempting to be a realistic representation of high speed space collisions, just one with a workable ranged and melee system, that still preserves the simultaneity and movement schemes of x-wing.

EDIT: something akin to how this battle shakes out (sfw): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yz1cr5bJ7w
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Commander Crud
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Check out D&D Attack Wing.
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Marquis DeSade
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commandercrud wrote:
Check out D&D Attack Wing.


Is it's melee system any good? Have you tried it yourself?
 
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Adrian Sperling
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Dolono wrote:
EDIT: something akin to how this battle shakes out (sfw): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yz1cr5bJ7w


Some good ideas so far, but I'm curious how you are going to incorporate the obligatory hair-toss: maybe a free mandatory action?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.../derail
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Marquis DeSade
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Gonjeshk wrote:

Some good ideas so far, but I'm curious how you are going to incorporate the obligatory hair-toss: maybe a free mandatory action?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.../derail


Y'know, I have been considering a EPT slot called "Cheese" for certain characters and mechs in the variant. Gundam, Macross, and all of those other series have so many ridiculously debonair characters ~ ones that manage to somehow simultaneously be A. incredible pilots B. marksmen C. fencers D. infiltrators E. diplomats F. in college and G. Not PTSD as f*** from all the fighting they're constantly doing. The Cheese upgrade slot I've been thinking of would usually turn a single mobile suit pilot into one taking on the entire opposing squad, solo.

With respect to your hair flip, I have thought of a style point system, to encourage risk taking (this might be the only way I can get folks to actually engage in the melee system I'm proposing here...).
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Angelus Seniores
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Dolono wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
you lost me at melee, this game isnt about lightsaber duels.

first, the ships are flying at high speeds
second, most of the pilots arent jedi
third, they're sitting in their enclosed cockpit, not on top of the ship nor are there open-topped ships, they're enclosed because they want to keep the breathable atmosphere in the ship.
fourth, the distances at which they shoot are bigger than you might suspect


I am soliciting advice on translating the X-Wing RULES, not ships, to a different sci fi setting, one with big, bipedal robots shooting and light sabre dueling. This variant is not attempting to be a realistic representation of high speed space collisions, just one with a workable ranged and melee system, that still preserves the simultaneity and movement schemes of x-wing.

EDIT: something akin to how this battle shakes out (sfw): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yz1cr5bJ7w


there is nothing in your post that suggest a different game than xwing, your first sentence clearly says its FOR xwing, maybe you should start your post with a disclaimer that explains you are talking about a different game, just to clear things up...
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Oblivion Doll
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I like this idea, and thanks to reading this, have come up with an idea for a melee system that I think makes sense. Ideally, there would be some changes to how movement works in order to facilitate more agile CQC movement, but this post will be about combat mechanics.

First off, the shooting phase is now "combat" instead. Units may perform one attack or counter during the combat phase, but may defend any number of times.

You may use melee to attack or to counter any attack at range 1. If your opponent attacks with melee, you may counter with your own melee or with a ranged attack. This produces 4 possible scenarios for each attack to be resolved:

Shoot/defend:
This plays out exactly like standard X-Wing shooting.

Melee/defend:
Melee attacks only happen at range 1, but do not recieve the bonus attack die for range 1. Critical hits with melee attacks cannot be canceled by evade results or tokens.

Melee/melee:
Both players roll attack dice equal to their melee rating. Criticals cancel criticals, and normal hits cancel normal hits. Any remaining damage is applied simultaneously.

Melee/shoot:
Both players roll the appropriate number of attack dice. The ranged attack counts as being fired at range 1, even if it wasn't. The melee attack gets no range bonus, but may spend any number of evade tokens to add that many attack dice to their roll. The melee player places one defense die with a face-up evade result for each hit and each critical they rolled. The ranged player only gets an evade result for each critical they rolled. The shooting attack is resolved first, and the melee attack only resolves if they survive being shot.

NOTE: Some of how this ruleset works is vaguely inspired by combat in Giga-Robo, which is a recently-kickstarted game about mech combat (ground-based, though, not space mech fights).
 
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