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Scythe» Forums » General

Subject: Difficulty of objectives rss

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Super Turtle
Greece
Athens
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It is only me that finds that the difficulty between objectives varies from "Go for a morning walk to the fields of the happy flowers" to " Run naked in the night at the forest of the legendary dangers" ?
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Jason Brown
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Of course they vary, that's why you get 2 and pick 1. Aligning your strategy in a way that naturally achieves one of your objectives is one of the challenges of the game.

I achieve an objective in a vast majority of my plays. Sometimes I hit it early and sometimes near the end. Sometimes I just ignore them both and try a different route. The objectives present another option for you to build your engine and plant your stars. It would be pretty boring if they were all the same difficulty level.

Actually, it would be darn near impossible to design them all perfectly balanced.
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Mark Bigney
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I agree completely. It was the one minor sour note I mentioned in an otherwise very positive review; it got considerable pushback.
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Chris Laudermilk
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S0laris wrote:
It is only me that finds that the difficulty between objectives varies between "Go for a morning walk to the fields of happy flowers" to " Run naked in the night at the forest of the legendary dangers" ?

Nope, it's not just you.

If I draw one of the former, I'll make some effort to gain that star. If the latter, I'll just ignore it.
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Super Turtle
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
Of course they vary, that's why you get 2 and pick 1. Aligning your strategy in a way that naturally achieves one of your objectives is one of the challenges of the game.

I achieve an objective in a vast majority of my plays. Sometimes I hit it early and sometimes near the end. Sometimes I just ignore them both and try a different route. The objectives present another option for you to build your engine and plant your stars. It would be pretty boring if they were all the same difficulty level.

Actually, it would be darn near impossible to design them all perfectly balanced.


I understand that and I do not care that much actually as in my group we play casually, but sometimes I believe that for some reason it was purposely designed that way. How could somebody thought that something like "control 3 mountain terrains" is equal to "have 9 resources of the same type at the end of your round".
 
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Malahias Zumakalis
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Don't run after them; they'll find you! If you're so close to achieve one, go for it; if not, let it go!
As we say in my country: "If it sits down upon you..." ("ama sou katsei...")!!!
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Joseph Cochran
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S0laris wrote:
It is only me that finds that the difficulty between objectives varies between "Go for a morning walk to the fields of happy flowers" to " Run naked in the night at the forest of the legendary dangers" ?


I sort of think of it as "fits with my faction/player board combo" or "that can go die in a fire". There doesn't often seem to be much middle ground in an efficiency game like this, because if you have to go more than one or two turns out of order to make the objective, you're probably better going after one of the other stars.

I feel like there must be some way to balance out the objective draw, but with 9 sorts of things you can shoot for in order to get stars and only 6 to hand out, one of them being randomly impossible doesn't bug me as much as it might if the objectives were actually critical to winning the game every time.
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Super Turtle
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Sun Of A Beach wrote:
Don't run after them; they'll find you! If you're so close to achieve one, go for it; if not, let it go!
As we say in my country: "If it sits down upon you..." ("ama sou katsei...")!!!


jsciv wrote:


I sort of think of it as "fits with my faction/player board combo" or "that can go die in a fire". There doesn't often seem to be much middle ground in an efficiency game like this, because if you have to go more than one or two turns out of order to make the objective, you're probably better going after one of the other stars.

I feel like there must be some way to balance out the objective draw, but with 9 sorts of things you can shoot for in order to get stars and only 6 to hand out, one of them being randomly impossible doesn't bug me as much as it might if the objectives were actually critical to winning the game every time.


I stongly agree and that's what I do
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Jason K
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Sun Of A Beach wrote:
Don't run after them; they'll find you! If you're so close to achieve one, go for it; if not, let it go!
As we say in my country: "If it sits down upon you..." ("ama sou katsei...")!!!


Couldn't agree more with this. Played the game probably over 20+ times and frankly most of the plays by many of us have been to play for the other objectives for getting stars out and see which of your objectives naturally starts to develop. The variety of the cards themselves I think tends to lead to this strategy.

Only exception could be the faction that can fulfill both objectives and may want to actively aim for that. Frankly I still wouldn't and just focus on the others until one pops up . Other games I think do this too, like castles of mad kind Ludwig, if you try too hard just for the secret goal you probably lose the game .
 
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Mathue Faulk
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jsciv wrote:

I feel like there must be some way to balance out the objective draw, but with 9 sorts of things you can shoot for in order to get stars and only 6 to hand out, one of them being randomly impossible doesn't bug me as much as it might if the objectives were actually critical to winning the game every time.

I agree with this, and we play with the RAW.

If, however, someone in my group started to make a fuss about the objectives, then I would consider this variant that I thought of:
- After receiving your objective cards and prior to the game starting, you may choose to discard both objectives in order to draw a single new objective card. You are then 'stuck' with that objective card.

It allows a little pre-game flexibility if a player really hates their objectives, but it comes with less in-game flexibility. It adds a possibly interesting decision, and shouldn't really change the balance too much.
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corum irsei
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
Of course they vary, that's why you get 2 and pick 1. Aligning your strategy in a way that naturally achieves one of your objectives is one of the challenges of the game.
+1.

It's one of the things I hate in Twilight Imperium 3: You only get one hidden objective, and if it's one that is all but impossible to meet, you're at a severe disadvantage right from the start.

Now, in Scythe, there's a small chance you may end up with two objectives that are both hard to achieve. Maybe, if that's something that happens to often for your taste, you could implement a house rule that you may discard both objectives and draw a third one that you must keep?

Edit: Lol, ninja'ed ninja
 
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Sky Zero
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Scythe already walks a fine line between brilliance and boredom with almost too much balance. For me, it lands on brilliance, but should the objectives have been as balanced as the board and some mechanics, it may have gone a wee bit too far for me. The variability in the objectives are a much needed breathe of fresh air in Scythe and I'm assuming that was by design.
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Richard Dewsbery
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If you HAD to complete an objective in order to finish or score well, it would be a big problem. But it's only one of, what, ten ways to get six stars?

Might it advantage a player who gets an easy one, especially if it matches their player board/faction? Sure. Now you know who to send your mechs after.

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Brian Jones
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Gyges wrote:
I agree completely. It was the one minor sour note I mentioned in an otherwise very positive review; it got considerable pushback.


I also agree, to an extent anyway.

I think there are two cards that are just poorly designed (the horde 9 resource cards, they are both not fun and I believe never a good idea to pursue for any faction) and a third which I cannot remember specifically but I believe is also prohibitively difficult for all factions. I have removed all three, and believe it improves the game. There is one card that I think falls on the other end of the scale, being too easy for everyone - the make a worker retreat and still have 7 power card. Saxony especially does a little dance if they draw that.

That leaves I think 20 some odd other cards, which is plenty of variability. There will always be the possibility of drawing cards that are not well matched to your faction and player boards, but that is to be expected. Perfect balance is not expected or desired, but neither is extreme variance.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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bclayj wrote:
There is one card that I think falls on the other end of the scale, being too easy for everyone - the make a worker retreat and still have 7 power card.


Which shows how subjective this all is. I KEEP drawing that card - so much that I checked my deck yesterday to see if there was more than one copy in there. Yet I've completed it about one time in five!
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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bclayj wrote:
There is one card that I think falls on the other end of the scale, being too easy for everyone - the make a worker retreat and still have 7 power card. Saxony especially does a little dance if they draw that.

OLO, I [i]just[/] had that one in the last game. I thought I had it, being very high on the power track--far in excess of everyone else. So I chase a worker back home & claim the objective. Only to be reminded that I had been in a combat earlier in the round that dropped my power to...6! surpriseshake
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Richard Dewsbery
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I didn't draw that card tonight in our 4-player game. Instead I got "horde 9 resources" card that Brian hates. I think scoring that card was my first or second star. I went on to win the game with 4 stars, and by a single point (using my last few turns to churn out buildings using all that hoarded wood).

So both achievable AND it won me the game. Sort of. It was a VERY close finish, and one opponent had the chance to end it a round earlier, but didn't because he was on 1 popularity and thought that he'd end up too far behind as a result. My assessment of the board position was that he would have won, as we were all in that bottom band for popularity.
 
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Brian Jones
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RDewsbery wrote:
I didn't draw that card tonight in our 4-player game. Instead I got "horde 9 resources" card that Brian hates. I think scoring that card was my first or second star. I went on to win the game with 4 stars, and by a single point (using my last few turns to churn out buildings using all that hoarded wood).

So both achievable AND it won me the game. Sort of. It was a VERY close finish, and one opponent had the chance to end it a round earlier, but didn't because he was on 1 popularity and thought that he'd end up too far behind as a result. My assessment of the board position was that he would have won, as we were all in that bottom band for popularity.


So you had all that wood hoarded for how long? And how did you manage to keep it and use it over multiple turns without being attacked? Maybe I need to come over and game with your group

In all honesty though, I have played the game four times now and all of the players, at least 8 different people, have agreed that the hoard 9 resource cards are the worst. If it was just me I would never have removed them.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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I amassed the wood with a produce/trade/produce (and got a lower action with the trade, so it fitted my plans). And then I started to spend it as fast sat possible (though I didn't build all four buildings as planned, due to having a better option on my final turn). I'd already upgraded my build twice so that it was two wood per build; if it had remained at he initial 4, or been upgraded just once, I would have used all of the wood. As it was, I kept it to the end (of a fairly short game) for the points.

I'd not left my homelands at that point, and although one player looked long and hard at attacking me, he was stumped by having the wrong type of river walk! The board position was pretty tense, and I think there were 6 or 7 stars won from combat (and two fought with no stars but resources at stake) so this was NOT a peaceful game.
 
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Phill Webb
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Funny, it was similar for me.

I got the 9 in my home area and then spent them over the rest of the game.

Ended up winning too.
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