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Vikings: Raid & Conquer» Forums » General

Subject: $64,000 for a deck building game? rss

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Tom Ragaert
Belgium
Gent
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Seems a bit much, no? There aren't even any minis that would drive up production costs.
 
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Patrick C.
United States
Milford
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??? Canadian dollars?

In US dollars it's about $50K for this KS to succeed. I'm betting part of the high amount for a game like this is the licensing.

I'm currently backing the game, not sure if I will continue to do so. The publisher is new to KS and doesn't seem to understand basic norms such as (and this is HUGE) - not telling backers what the shipping will be and having all stretch goals be for the limited edition backers while offering nothing to regular backers. Both are amateur moves in so many ways.

Everything about this tells me this KS will be a fiasco in terms of delivery time and broken promises. Not sure if I want to pay to take that ride or not.

If I wasn't a fan of the show this would all be a nonstarter - which is something the publisher needs to recognize. The way they're running this the only people who will back this are fans of the show. That's a limited audience. They're screwing themselves with how they're running this.
 
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Deltron Nortled
Canada
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Hey Patrick, hearing you loud and clear.

All good, we totally understand and have made huge improvements on the campaign. We sent out an a big Update today. Recap is below. We are new to KS but have been producing and delivering games for 4 years now. We talked with our manufacturers and have made some logistical changes that now adds more value for our backers and delivers the Limited edition on time.
Thanks for the feedback. We truly appreciate it.

High Roller Team


IMPROVED VALUE TO BACKERS (as of Aug 26, 2016)

We love our backers feedback and are adding more value, these improvements trump the details in applicable pledge levels. Message us if you have any questions.

1. Limited Edition Game is now being shipped at the same time as the Base Game (est. Nov. 2016).

2. Base Game includes the game as seen with any applicable unlocked stretch goals.

3. Limited Edition Game is a 1 time only print run with a gold box, 6 exclusive Kickstarter promo game cards, 226 card sleeves (with artwork) and includes all unlocked stretch goals.
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Deltron Nortled
Canada
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Hey Tom,
We understand where your coming from. We have done quite a bit of research on similar types of deck building games and know that this is the lowest funding goal we could go with. $49,000 USD is a realistic goal.
Also, we are working on shipping overseas right now and seem to be making progress. Will update on KS and BGG soon.
Thanks for feedback!
SKOL!
High Roller Team
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Chris Alsup
United States
Florida
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I agree, I've just done some numbers and to have 220 cards, board, and box is way less expensive than what they are asking. Panda could have this out the door with all the leg work done for cheap. I'm thinking: "wow if you can make the money great!" The art costed them very little mostly screen shots that I hope look ok, typically they are tough to make look right unless they are promo pictures, screen shots get resized and looked poor upon closer inspection. I say good luck to them but I'm not holding me breath.
 
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Deltron Nortled
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Hey Chris,
Thanks for the feedback. We have done our research and know that the game is well priced at $35USD for the Early Bird. There was a lot of work and costs associated with the game. The Shields and Board are very high quality. We are producing the Base game and Limited Edition game in the U.S.A. and because of this, we will have both games ready in time for Xmas!

SKOL!
High Roller Team

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Patrick C.
United States
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Viking07 wrote:
Hey Chris,
Thanks for the feedback. We have done our research and know that the game is well priced at $35USD for the Early Bird. There was a lot of work and costs associated with the game. The Shields and Board are very high quality. We are producing the Base game and Limited Edition game in the U.S.A. and because of this, we will have both games ready in time for Xmas!

SKOL!
High Roller Team



I do appreciate your level of responsiveness to backers and potential backers. Like I posted on KS, I'm not normally this vocal about how a KS is run. In fact, I almost always take the side of the publisher as I think backers expect and demand too much. Have seen in many many times.

In this case, however, I've seen some red flags both in terms of value to the backer and indication that backers can trust that you can deliver on your promises. The issue of stretch goals was about making everyone invested in the final outcome, not just the backers of the limited edition. Seems as if you've addressed that. This should help your bottom line and that's good.

The other major issue I've had is with the unknown shipping. Thousands of KS projects with board games have calculated shipping costs before they started the campaign. That you guys haven't done so concerns me both in terms of level of organization and my own wallet.

I just saw this on the KS page: "As an estimate, shipping will be between $12 - $22."

Didn't see that when I pledged, don't know if it's new or I missed it.

That means it's not $35, it's $47 to $57 at the early bird price.

I'm an online seller myself. I could ship this game within the US to a third of the country for less than $10 and I can deliver to the entire country for less than $12 as long as it fit inside a medium flat rate box. I'm assuming the upper range for you guys is because these are coming from Canada? If so, that's a problem as other KS campaigns typically figure out a way to avoid this. How, I don't know. Crossing the border into the US and dropping the packages off at the PO while using online postage? I have no idea. I just know it can be done.

It looks as if you guys are learning fast as you go along and that's great. I'm not trying to criticize with that comment - I've seen a number of KS publisher's really fail to address problems when people point out problems. On some issues this is great. But 1)not knowing shipping is a concern because it shows lack of planning and 2)is potentially a problem because the stated rates are simply too high.

If you're not skimming money off the shipping (and I assume you're not) that means you guys haven't figured out how to ship your game in the most affordable manner that saves backers money and gets you as a result more backers.

Edit:
You guys are in an uphill battle before you even started this campaign regardless of planning you did or didn't do.

You're an unknown publisher with very little track record. People have been badly burned on KS. I myself had to wait four years for one game! Some people have never gotten some of the games they've backed.

While you have licensed a cool show, it's also a show that in fact doesn't have wide popularity. You'll get some backers from fans, but a lot of people are just looking for a good game about Vikings or a good deck builder that does something different.

Which brings me to gamers - the game hasn't been widely vetted. You have one review up and that's good. But many of us have been burned before. We're backing your game on faith, not experience or direct knowledge. The gap needs to be filled as much as possible with opinions and reviews from people not affiliated with your company.

All of this makes issues such as the unknown and potentially too high shipping costs even more worrisome.
 
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Flavid Pheltar
Canada
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Hey Patrick:

Thank you for pointing out that we rectified the issue of extending the stretch goals to all levels of pledges. It was because of your comment earlier on KS that brought that to our attention. Your constructive criticism has been very valuable to our campaign.

If you take another look at the shipping details, those numbers are for Canada. For the US, it is $10 to $18. That still might seem above average but we gave ourselves a high ceiling, just in case, for shipping to very remote, rural areas. For the majority, shipping will be at, (or right close to), $10. If the shipping cost still ends up seeming unreasonable for some, there will be ample time for backers to pull out after they see what there shipping cost will be.

It’s unfortunate that some KS companies have failed fulfil their obligations. It is definitely a legitimate concern. Although we are a small company and relatively new, we do have a line of games in which we have done multiple production runs. Check out our website
http://highrollergames.com. We definitely want to be around for really long time and keep earning our reputation for being a stand up company, putting out high quality and extremely re-playable, licensed games. We couldn't achieve this without doing all we can to make sure none of our KS backers end up disappointed.

We added more detail to the shipping section on our KS page because of your comment. I hope it is more clear. Thank you Patrick. Your concerns have been very insightful. I’m sure many potential backers have had similar concerns but you were the one that brought it to our attention.

The High Roller Team
 
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Mike Forrey
United States
Dallastown
Pennsylvania
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Viking07 wrote:
Hey Patrick, hearing you loud and clear.

All good, we totally understand and have made huge improvements on the campaign. We sent out an a big Update today. Recap is below. We are new to KS but have been producing and delivering games for 4 years now. We talked with our manufacturers and have made some logistical changes that now adds more value for our backers and delivers the Limited edition on time.
Thanks for the feedback. We truly appreciate it.

High Roller Team


IMPROVED VALUE TO BACKERS (as of Aug 26, 2016)

We love our backers feedback and are adding more value, these improvements trump the details in applicable pledge levels. Message us if you have any questions.

1. Limited Edition Game is now being shipped at the same time as the Base Game (est. Nov. 2016).

2. Base Game includes the game as seen with any applicable unlocked stretch goals.

3. Limited Edition Game is a 1 time only print run with a gold box, 6 exclusive Kickstarter promo game cards, 226 card sleeves (with artwork) and includes all unlocked stretch goals.


You mean 2017 right? There's no way you get this delivered by 2016.
 
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