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A Feast for Odin» Forums » Rules

Subject: Special tiles, income diagonals and imitation rss

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Ugur Dönmez
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A couple of small clarification questions after reading the rules:
- The special tiles are referred to as both blue and grey. Judging by the images I would assume grey is correct?
- Do the rules for covering the income diagonal only apply to the diagonal on your personal board? Because some of the exploration boards seem to have something resembling an income diagonal too.
- Is the example about the available imitation actions correct? From the image I would say the first and fourth column feature imitation rather than the stated second and third
 
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Slawomir Stankowski
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Game Knight wrote:

- The special tiles are referred to as both blue and grey. Judging by the images I would assume grey is correct?


I would assume so too.

Game Knight wrote:

- Do the rules for covering the income diagonal only apply to the diagonal on your personal board? Because some of the exploration boards seem to have something resembling an income diagonal too.


rules on page 10
"By claiming exploration boards, you can produce additional
income. Income from an exploration board is handled like
income from your home board (see also appendix, page 15)."

Game Knight wrote:

- Is the example about the available imitation actions correct? From the image I would say the first and fourth column feature imitation rather than the stated second and third


probably a missprint
 
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Philip Morton
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SlawoS wrote:
Game Knight wrote:
- Do the rules for covering the income diagonal only apply to the diagonal on your personal board? Because some of the exploration boards seem to have something resembling an income diagonal too.

rules on page 10
"By claiming exploration boards, you can produce additional
income. Income from an exploration board is handled like
income from your home board (see also appendix, page 15)."

That could just mean "income from the board is the lowest exposed number", though.
 
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
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It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
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golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
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Special tiles are blue, which is why you can collect them with the raid/pillaging actions and, most importantly, place them on your player boards at all.
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
United States
Little Canada
Minnesota
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It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
badge
golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
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Chrondeath wrote:
SlawoS wrote:
Game Knight wrote:
- Do the rules for covering the income diagonal only apply to the diagonal on your personal board? Because some of the exploration boards seem to have something resembling an income diagonal too.

rules on page 10
"By claiming exploration boards, you can produce additional
income. Income from an exploration board is handled like
income from your home board (see also appendix, page 15)."

That could just mean "income from the board is the lowest exposed number", though.


"As with the home board: at any time, you may place green craft products and blue luxury goods as well as silver coins and ore tokens on empty spaces of the exploration boards, according to the same rules. "

Quite clearly stated in the rules.
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Michael Wißner
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Game Knight wrote:

- The special tiles are referred to as both blue and grey. Judging by the images I would assume grey is correct?


While they look grey (and are referred to as such), they are considered blue with regards to which tiles they can be placed next to.
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Grant
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golden_cow2 wrote:
Special tiles are blue, which is why you can collect them with the raid/pillaging actions and, most importantly, place them on your player boards at all.

There appear to be some inconsistencies in the rule book on this point. In this section:


The paragraph calls them blue and describes them as blue on both sides, while the photo depicts them as grey and calls them grey in the caption.

Am I misunderstanding something? Are there both blue and grey special tiles?

EDIT: ninja
MiWi wrote:
Game Knight wrote:

- The special tiles are referred to as both blue and grey. Judging by the images I would assume grey is correct?


While they look grey (and are referred to as such), they are considered blue with regards to which tiles they can be placed next to.

This is not clear from the rules at all.
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
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Little Canada
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It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
badge
golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
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Nowhere else in the rules is the word "grey" mentioned and only blue and green tiles (plus silver/ore) can be placed on player boards.
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Grant
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golden_cow2 wrote:
Nowhere else in the rules is the word "grey" mentioned and only blue and green tiles (plus silver/ore) can be placed on player boards.

That's not true. The snip I posted is from page 4, page 2 also calls them grey. Plus, everywhere they're shown in the book, they appear to be grey.

If the rules just said something like "The grey special tiles are considered to be blue for all placement purposes" then it would be clear. But it just interchangeably refers to them as blue and grey, which is very confusing.
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
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Little Canada
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It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
badge
golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
mbmbmbmbmb
Right, so aside from the set-up which physically describes the components (and also quite clearly mentions they are blue), there is no other reference to grey tiles. It's unfortunate that they used the word grey in the first place, but considering the game doesn't even function if special tiles are not blue (or they would be almost unobtainable and entirely unplaceable) there is no reason to assume they are not blue.
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Grant
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golden_cow2 wrote:
Right, so aside from the set-up which physically describes the components (and also quite clearly mentions they are blue), there is no other reference to grey tiles. It's unfortunate that they used the word grey in the first place, but considering the game doesn't even function if special tiles are not blue (or they would be almost unobtainable and entirely unplaceable) there is no reason to assume they are not blue.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the tiles are, in fact, physically colored grey. (which is a pretty good reason to assume they are not blue...)
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Ugur Dönmez
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golden_cow2 wrote:
It's unfortunate that they used the word grey in the first place, but considering the game doesn't even function if special tiles are not blue (or they would be almost unobtainable and entirely unplaceable) there is no reason to assume they are not blue.


True. Still I generally prefer a confirmation from the designer or publisher over an assumption.
 
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
United States
Little Canada
Minnesota
flag msg tools
It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
badge
golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
mbmbmbmbmb
grant5 wrote:
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the tiles are, in fact, physically colored grey. (which is a pretty good reason to assume they are not blue...)


Not only are they a bright navy blue, they could be physically red for all I care -- the rules still refer to them as blue in every instance except the set-up.
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Grant
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golden_cow2 wrote:
grant5 wrote:
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the tiles are, in fact, physically colored grey. (which is a pretty good reason to assume they are not blue...)


Not only are they a bright navy blue

Except that they're not bright navy blue, they're grey.

Quote:
, they could be physically red for all I care

You're right, they could be any color, as long as the rules said "The red tiles follow the placement rules of the blue tiles" or "place the red tiles as if they were blue tiles." But if they just went around calling them blue, when in fact they were red, and never addressed the conflict, then that would be CONFUSING.

Quote:
-- the rules still refer to them as blue in every instance except the set-up.

Again, you're just wrong. in every instance outside of setup they are just refered to as "special tiles" with no color stated. But they do SHOW them as grey in EVERY picture. I don't understand how you're defending this obvious oversight and trying to say people are wrong for calling it out.

When you describe something one way (or in several conflicting ways, actually), and show that thing differently from how it's described, that is going to confuse people.
The fact that there's enough discrepancy for us to have this debate is proof enough of that.
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Bart L

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So where can we see the rulebook? Since there's a screenshot of a page here, is it available somewhere?
 
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
United States
Little Canada
Minnesota
flag msg tools
It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
badge
golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
mbmbmbmbmb
grant5 wrote:

Again, you're just wrong. in every instance outside of setup they are just refered to as "special tiles" with no color stated. But they do SHOW them as grey in EVERY picture. I don't understand how you're defending this obvious oversight and trying to say people are wrong for calling it out.

When you describe something one way (or in several conflicting ways, actually), and show that thing differently from how it's described, that is going to confuse people.
The fact that there's enough discrepancy for us to have this debate is proof enough of that.


Except for every action that lets you take blue tiles also letting you take special tiles and the placement examples showing special tiles which are impossible to place unless they are blue.

And just because a debate is going on doesn't mean that both sides of the debate are acting reasonable -- there are still flat earthers after all. When the rulebook says their blue, and when the rules only work if they are blue, and when in every example they are blue, there is zero room for saying they are "grey in terms of rules" even if they are physically grey, especially when "grey in terms of rules" is not a concept in the rulebook.

Look, I completely agree that calling the tiles grey makes no sense when the word "grey" is never mentioned again and they are then called "blue" in the very same paragraph. It remains obvious from the rules, however, that the tiles are blue.
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Matt Watkins
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grant5 wrote:
Except that they're not bright navy blue, they're grey.


If you watch MiWi's videos, you can see that they're grey-ish blue. They look grey or blue depending on the lighting. In other words, they're a slightly different shade of blue than the resource tiles in order to distinguish them (they're unique), and since that shade is greyish, the rules refer to them as grey when it's necessary to distinguish them by looks, as when setting up the game.
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Qfwfq Piovasco di Rondò
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Aganerral wrote:
So where can we see the rulebook? Since there's a screenshot of a page here, is it available somewhere?

Here we go: Rules in English now available for 'A Feast for Odin' on Zman website
 
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Grant
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golden_cow2 wrote:
grant5 wrote:

Again, you're just wrong. in every instance outside of setup they are just refered to as "special tiles" with no color stated. But they do SHOW them as grey in EVERY picture. I don't understand how you're defending this obvious oversight and trying to say people are wrong for calling it out.

When you describe something one way (or in several conflicting ways, actually), and show that thing differently from how it's described, that is going to confuse people.
The fact that there's enough discrepancy for us to have this debate is proof enough of that.


Except for every action that lets you take blue tiles also letting you take special tiles and the placement examples showing special tiles which are impossible to place unless they are blue.

And just because a debate is going on doesn't mean that both sides of the debate are acting reasonable -- there are still flat earthers after all. When the rulebook says their blue, and when the rules only work if they are blue, and when in every example they are blue, there is zero room for saying they are "grey in terms of rules" even if they are physically grey, especially when "grey in terms of rules" is not a concept in the rulebook.

Look, I completely agree that calling the tiles grey makes no sense when the word "grey" is never mentioned again and they are then called "blue" in the very same paragraph. It remains obvious from the rules, however, that the tiles are blue.

Ok, I think we can agree then. I never said you couldn't figure out the intent from what is written in the book. My only claim is that the way they wrote it could be confusing, and there should have been some sentence added that specifically addressed why grey tiles were being described as blue tiles and used as blue tiles.
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Matt_W wrote:
grant5 wrote:
Except that they're not bright navy blue, they're grey.


If you watch MiWi's videos, you can see that they're grey-ish blue. They look grey or blue depending on the lighting. In other words, they're a slightly different shade of blue than the resource tiles in order to distinguish them (they're unique), and since that shade is greyish, the rules refer to them as grey when it's necessary to distinguish them by looks, as when setting up the game.

Seriously, a shades of blue argument? You realize MiWi himself posted earlier in the thread that the tiles are grey but used as if they're blue. There is no question about them being a "shade of grey" or a "shade of blue."

Let me ask you, what do you see here?


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tullio wrote:
Aganerral wrote:
So where can we see the rulebook? Since there's a screenshot of a page here, is it available somewhere?

Here we go: Rules in English now available for 'A Feast for Odin' on Zman website


Thanks, not sure how I missed that
 
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MiWi wrote:
Game Knight wrote:

- The special tiles are referred to as both blue and grey. Judging by the images I would assume grey is correct?


While they look grey (and are referred to as such), they are considered blue with regards to which tiles they can be placed next to.


That is correct.
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Frank Heeren
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Game Knight wrote:
ß
- Is the example about the available imitation actions correct? From the image I would say the first and fourth column feature imitation rather than the stated second and third


The 2 Imitation tiles are double sided: The first tile lets you imitate the first column on one side and the second on the other side. The second tile is for the third or the fourth column. Choosing the sides randomly will add extra variability.
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Ugur Dönmez
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nan3000 wrote:
Game Knight wrote:
ß
- Is the example about the available imitation actions correct? From the image I would say the first and fourth column feature imitation rather than the stated second and third


The 2 Imitation tiles are double sided: The first tile lets you imitate the first column on one side and the second on the other side. The second tile is for the third or the fourth column. Choosing the sides randomly will add extra variability.


Thanks Frank, but in the example on page 20 the second and third column show a hand while the first and fourth show the "imitate another player's action" text. Doesn't that mean that in this case the imitation action is available for the first and fourth column?

I appreciate you weighing in with the "official" answer. Could you also give a final verdict on my question about the income diagonals on the expansion boards?
 
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Grant
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Game Knight wrote:
nan3000 wrote:
Game Knight wrote:
ß
- Is the example about the available imitation actions correct? From the image I would say the first and fourth column feature imitation rather than the stated second and third


The 2 Imitation tiles are double sided: The first tile lets you imitate the first column on one side and the second on the other side. The second tile is for the third or the fourth column. Choosing the sides randomly will add extra variability.


Thanks Frank, but in the example on page 20 the second and third column show a hand while the first and fourth show the "imitate another player's action" text. Doesn't that mean that in this case the imitation action is available for the first and fourth column?

I agree, it looks like the image shows 1 and 4.

Quote:
I appreciate you weighing in with the "official" answer. Could you also give a final verdict on my question about the income diagonals on the expansion boards?

As was already pointed out, the rules seem to be pretty clear on this. Do you have a specific question or situation that you think the rules don't address?
 
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