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Guilds of London» Forums » Rules

Subject: When is the hand limit applied? How do Gog & Magog break ties? rss

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Dave Moser
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1) When I play a card that allows me to draw extra cards at "end of turn", does that happen before or after the hand limit is applied? I've been assuming before, i.e., I draw my two, then whatever extras I'm allowed, and then discard down to 7. However, I don't think this is clearly stated anywhere, and I can foresee a rules lawyer claiming that "end of turn" actions happen after applying the hand limit, as any necessary discarding would still be part of your turn. Is there any definitive clarification of this?

2) Regarding the Gog & Magog tile that says its master wins all ties: Assume Alan has G&M, and he and Bob each have 1 liveryman on a guild, and Bob has 1 orthogonally adjacent liveryman. Does Alan become the master, because G&M immediately break the direct majority tie, or are orthogonal tiles checked first, giving Bob the guild (G&M having no effect, because the players are no longer tied)?

3) Also regarding G&M: If Bob's VP marker is sitting atop Alan's, position in the stack is normally a "tie-breaker" for turn order, meaning Bob has to go before Alan. But if Alan is the master of G&M, do they break that tie, forcing Alan to go before Bob in the turn order?

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James Mathias
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dmoser22 wrote:
1) When I play a card that allows me to draw extra cards at "end of turn", does that happen before or after the hand limit is applied? I've been assuming before, i.e., I draw my two, then whatever extras I'm allowed, and then discard down to 7. However, I don't think this is clearly stated anywhere, and I can foresee a rules lawyer claiming that "end of turn" actions happen after applying the hand limit, as any necessary discarding would still be part of your turn. Is there any definitive clarification of this?

2) Regarding the Gog & Magog tile that says its master wins all ties: Assume Alan has G&M, and he and Bob each have 1 liveryman on a guild, and Bob has 1 orthogonally adjacent liveryman. Does Alan become the master, because G&M immediately break the direct majority tie, or are orthogonal tiles checked first, giving Bob the guild (G&M having no effect, because the players are no longer tied)?

3) Also regarding G&M: If Bob's VP marker is sitting atop Alan's, position in the stack is normally a "tie-breaker" for turn order, meaning Bob has to go before Alan. But if Alan is the master of G&M, do they break that tie, forcing Alan to go before Bob in the turn order?



The rules are quite clear on #1.

Quote:
The maximum hand size is seven ac on cards (increased to eight if you are the master of the University of London special building le). If you have more than this limit in your hand at the end of your turn after you have drawn new action cards, you must choose and discard down to the limit. Mayoral reward cards do not count against your hand limit.


I don't have answers for your questions on Gog & Magog
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Dave Moser
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jmathias wrote:
The rules are quite clear on #1.

Thanks - I'll have to check them again when I get home.
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Jimmy Hensel
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I agree with James on the hand limit. It is applied after you have drawn all the action cards you get to draw before the next player's turn or, if you are the last player, before you check tiles for resolution. If you are awarded additional action cards during the resolution of tiles, it doesn't matter how many cards you have in hand as a result; you get to keep them all until the end of your next turn.

The player with a master on Gog & Magog wins all ties. If that player finds himself in a tie, he wins and no other tie breakers are considered. In other words you check for master on Gog & Magog as the first tie breaker. I got this clarification straight from the designer, Tony Boydell when I was helping to playtest.

I'm not sure about ties on turn order. The graphics on the Gog & Magog tile shows liverymen, I'm guessing that Gog & Magog only applies to ties involving quantities of liverymen. Which would, to me (and I may be totally wrong on this), would imply Gog & Magog does not affect scoring ties. Winning ties in quantities of liverymen is good, but it's bad in turn order as it's better to go later.
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pacemaker 67
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dmoser22 wrote:

3) Also regarding G&M: If Bob's VP marker is sitting atop Alan's, position in the stack is normally a "tie-breaker" for turn order, meaning Bob has to go before Alan. But if Alan is the master of G&M, do they break that tie, forcing Alan to go before Bob in the turn order?



I don't see anything in the rules about there being a tie to break for turn order. It is as it is. The turn order is well-defined.
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Steve Valladolid
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pacemaker67 wrote:
dmoser22 wrote:

3) Also regarding G&M: If Bob's VP marker is sitting atop Alan's, position in the stack is normally a "tie-breaker" for turn order, meaning Bob has to go before Alan. But if Alan is the master of G&M, do they break that tie, forcing Alan to go before Bob in the turn order?



I don't see anything in the rules about there being a tie to break for turn order. It is as it is. The turn order is well-defined.


I'm sure this is the correct answer but it would be hilarious if it forced first place in turn order.
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Dave Moser
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pawnpusher wrote:
... you check for master on Gog & Magog as the first tie breaker. I got this clarification straight from the designer, Tony Boydell when I was helping to playtest.

Thanks - that's what I was looking for.
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Damien Cosgrove
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We had a game where the 1st and 2nd player both ended on the same number of points. So the player who controlled G&MG won as he broke all ties. I don't see turn order being a tie-break issue as they're in different positions on the track effectively (on top isn't the same as on bottom for turn order = no need for tie break!)
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