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Boaty McBoatface
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Do the many flip-flops on policy positions give you pause, or do you not care? Besides the most "recent" immigration reversal

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A fair tax system

Making sure the wealthy, Wall Street, and corporations pay their fair share in taxes.
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Addiction and substance use

Through improved treatment, prevention, and training, we can end this quiet epidemic once and for all.
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An economy that works for everyone

We need to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top.
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An economy that works for everyone

We need to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top.
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An end to Alzheimer's disease

We can prevent, effectively treat, and make an Alzheimer’s cure possible by 2025.
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Autism

Millions of Americans live with autism—and we’ve got to do more to support them and their families.
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Campaign finance reform

Our democracy should work for everyone, not just the wealthy and well-connected.
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Campus sexual assault

It's not enough to condemn campus sexual assault. We need to end it.
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Climate change

Taking on the threat of climate change and making America the world’s clean energy superpower.
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Combating terrorism and keeping the homeland safe

It’s not enough to contain ISIS and the threat of terrorism—we have to defeat it.
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Criminal justice reform

Our criminal justice system is out of balance.
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Disability rights

We must continue to expand opportunities for Americans with disabilities.
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Early childhood education

Every child deserves the chance to live up to his or her God-given potential.
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Fixing America's infrastructure

Strong infrastructure is critical to a strong economy.
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Gun violence prevention

We can—and must—end the epidemic of gun violence.
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Health care

Universal, quality, affordable health care for everyone in America
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HIV and AIDS

We have reached a critical moment in our fight against HIV and AIDS.
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Immigration reform

We need comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to full and equal citizenship.
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Jobs and wages

We can make the boldest investment in good-paying jobs since World War II.
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K-12 education

Strong public education is the key to preparing our children for the future.
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Labor and workers’ rights

When unions are strong, America is strong.
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LGBT rights and equality

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender Americans deserve to live their lives free from discrimination.
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Making college debt-free and taking on student debt

Hillary will make debt-free college available to everyone and take on student loan debt.
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Manufacturing

Hillary Clinton’s plan to strengthen manufacturing so we always “Make it in America.”
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Military and defense

We should maintain the best-trained, best-equipped, and strongest military the world has ever known.
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National security

With policies that keep us strong and safe, America will lead the world in the 21st century.
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Paid family and medical leave

It's time to guarantee paid family and medical leave in America.
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Protecting animals and wildlife

The way our society treats animals is a reflection of our humanity.
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Racial justice

America’s long struggle with race is far from finished.
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Rural communities

America’s rural communities are the backbone of this country.
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Small business

We have to level the playing field for America’s small businesses.
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Social Security and Medicare

We must preserve, protect, and strengthen these lifelines.
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Technology and innovation

We can harness the power of technology and innovation to work for all Americans.
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Veterans, the armed forces, and their families

America must fully commit to supporting veterans.
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Voting rights

We should be making it easier to vote, not harder.
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Wall Street reform

Wall Street must work for Main Street.
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Women's rights and opportunity

We need to break down barriers that hold women back.
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Workforce skills and job training

Every American should be able to learn the skills they need to compete and succeed.


If these aren't the issues you care about, do you think she will keep the ones you do? If so, why?
 
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Josh
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Pennsylvania
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Tl;dr. What's your point?
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Boaty McBoatface
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Shadrach wrote:
Tl;dr. What's your point?
Try thinking about it, what is the current Trumpeversy?
 
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Mac Mcleod
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I know she's qualified, reasonable and liberal.

She'll behave as expected and trump is a nightmare.

She's shown she can make sacrifices for the good of the party and the country. She's shown by her actions that she strongly believes in our democracy. I liked that a lot in 2008. It redeemed her in my eyes.

Your first post is too long and a bit of a core dump.
And you didn't type it- so please provide a link to the source if you are not going to give better context.

Seriously your first post is only slightly removed from a random pile of words. You need to polish it.

tldr; I do not think of clinton as a flipflopper.
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Junior McSpiffy
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Cliton? Why are we voting about things under the S part of our heading?
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Kelsey Rinella
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Rochester
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slatersteven wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Tl;dr. What's your point?
Try thinking about it, what is the current Trumpeversy?


I think Shadrach is pointing out that a list of her positions without evidence of flip-flopping isn't parallel. It's true she's changed some positions over the years, but her supporters generally regard her as doing so out of pragmatism or a result of changing with the times in a positive way. She hasn't been noticeably inconsistent during this campaign, so voters have a reasonable understanding of what they're voting for if they vote for her. She also has a long record of government work which informs our thoughts about how she'll behave in office.
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Josh
United States
Pennsylvania
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rinelk wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Tl;dr. What's your point?
Try thinking about it, what is the current Trumpeversy?


I think Shadrach is pointing out that a list of her positions without evidence of flip-flopping isn't parallel. It's true she's changed some positions over the years, but her supporters generally regard her as doing so out of pragmatism or a result of changing with the times in a positive way. She hasn't been noticeably inconsistent during this campaign, so voters have a reasonable understanding of what they're voting for if they vote for her. She also has a long record of government work which informs our thoughts about how she'll behave in office.


This.
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Boaty McBoatface
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rinelk wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Tl;dr. What's your point?
Try thinking about it, what is the current Trumpeversy?


I think Shadrach is pointing out that a list of her positions without evidence of flip-flopping isn't parallel. It's true she's changed some positions over the years, but her supporters generally regard her as doing so out of pragmatism or a result of changing with the times in a positive way. She hasn't been noticeably inconsistent during this campaign, so voters have a reasonable understanding of what they're voting for if they vote for her. She also has a long record of government work which informs our thoughts about how she'll behave in office.
And guess what, that was my point.

Sorry for being to subtle.

Trumps "strength" was his honesty and his "saying it like it is" yet he is in fact far more inconstant (over a shorter amount of time" the Clinton.

This is now (I would argue) his biggest weakness, he now looks like a bigger liar then Clinton (well as less competent one). It is going to be hard now (as I hope my question has demonstrated) to use the "but Clinton" defense when Donny is pulled up over his lies. As with the election funding scandal Donny is coming across (I think) to most people as far less capable (and I think far less honest) then Clinton.
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Kelsey Rinella
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slatersteven wrote:
rinelk wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Tl;dr. What's your point?
Try thinking about it, what is the current Trumpeversy?


I think Shadrach is pointing out that a list of her positions without evidence of flip-flopping isn't parallel. It's true she's changed some positions over the years, but her supporters generally regard her as doing so out of pragmatism or a result of changing with the times in a positive way. She hasn't been noticeably inconsistent during this campaign, so voters have a reasonable understanding of what they're voting for if they vote for her. She also has a long record of government work which informs our thoughts about how she'll behave in office.
And guess what, that was my point.

Sorry for being to subtle.

Trumps "strength" was his honesty and his "saying it like it is" yet he is in fact far more inconstant (over a shorter amount of time" the Clinton.

This is now (I would argue) his biggest weakness, he now looks like a bigger liar then Clinton (well as less competent one). It is going to be hard now (as I hope my question has demonstrated) to use the "but Clinton" defense when Donny is pulled up over his lies. As with the election funding scandal Donny is coming across (I think) to most people as far less capable (and I think far less honest) then Clinton.


Ah, I see.

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William Farnum
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If the incredible amount of lying, traitorous deleting of government documents , selling of the SOS office and being married to and defending an evil womanizer didn't change their minds why would anything?
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Josh
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Pennsylvania
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knucklesamwich wrote:
If the incredible amount of lying, traitorous deleting of government documents , selling of the SOS office and being married to and defending an evil womanizer didn't change their minds why would anything?


Welcome to RSP! I can see you've already outfitted yourself with a Standard Opinion Kit, went with the Fox model I see. I'm sure you'll fit right into the endless reposts from pretty legit sites. You may wish to buy an Avatar so we can differentiate you though.
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Boaty McBoatface
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knucklesamwich wrote:
If the incredible amount of lying, traitorous deleting of government documents , selling of the SOS office and being married to and defending an evil womanizer didn't change their minds why would anything?
Conviction would, I.E. her getting one.

Until then they are all just unproven accusations.

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Snoo Py
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Sunnyvale
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slatersteven wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Tl;dr. What's your point?
Try thinking about it, what is the current Trumpeversy?


I too am not sure what your listing is about, but the current Trumpversy is about flip-flopping on his main cause, immigration.
I don't think HRD program has a main cause, but it would be similar to her backpedaling on Obamacare for instance. If this ever happens, it would too make big titles.
 
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Kelsey Rinella
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Rochester
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Joe Cool wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Tl;dr. What's your point?
Try thinking about it, what is the current Trumpeversy?


I too am not sure what your listing is about, but the current Trumpversy is about flip-flopping on his main cause, immigration.
I don't think HRD program has a main cause, but it would be similar to her backpedaling on Obamacare for instance. If this ever happens, it would too make big titles.


Unless there were relevant new data suggesting that the alternative to which she was switching was better. Honestly, Obamacare was always a compromise because of what Congress could pass at the time; I don't think anyone believes there aren't lots of ways it could be improved. I think Clinton could potentially put Republicans in a difficult spot by suggesting a small number of reforms which our experience with the law has indicated it needs. Refusing to make the law better because you're hoping it hurts people enough that you can use it as an election issue could potentially be made unpopular.
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Drew
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Shadrach wrote:
knucklesamwich wrote:
If the incredible amount of lying, traitorous deleting of government documents , selling of the SOS office and being married to and defending an evil womanizer didn't change their minds why would anything?


Welcome to RSP! I can see you've already outfitted yourself with a Standard Opinion Kit, went with the Fox model I see.


Because nobody would ever come to that conclusion about Hillary without Fox News.

Oh, wait. I don't watch Fox News -- haven't watched it in years! And that's exactly MY opinion, too!

I guess you're wrong. Again.
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Pontifex Maximus
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Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
knucklesamwich wrote:
If the incredible amount of lying, traitorous deleting of government documents , selling of the SOS office and being married to and defending an evil womanizer didn't change their minds why would anything?


Welcome to RSP! I can see you've already outfitted yourself with a Standard Opinion Kit, went with the Fox model I see.


Because nobody would ever come to that conclusion about Hillary without Fox News.

Oh, wait. I don't watch Fox News -- haven't watched it in years! And that's exactly MY opinion, too!

I guess you're wrong. Again.


Actually it seens he may have bypassed Fox News and upgraded to some serious alt right derangement. The "traitorous" remark is kind of a giveaway
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J
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Drew1365 wrote:
I don't watch Fox News

you get all the Truth from your "pretty legit" sites.
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Steven Woodcock
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Drew1365 wrote:


I guess you're wrong. Again.


It's easier to assume that's his natural state unless he proves otherwise.....


Ferret
 
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Josh
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Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
knucklesamwich wrote:
If the incredible amount of lying, traitorous deleting of government documents , selling of the SOS office and being married to and defending an evil womanizer didn't change their minds why would anything?


Welcome to RSP! I can see you've already outfitted yourself with a Standard Opinion Kit, went with the Fox model I see.


Because nobody would ever come to that conclusion about Hillary without Fox News.

Oh, wait. I don't watch Fox News -- haven't watched it in years! And that's exactly MY opinion, too!

I guess you're wrong. Again.


I was giving the new person the benefit of the doubt. Fox is less insane than a lot of what you pedal around here.
 
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Kelsey Rinella
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Shadrach wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
knucklesamwich wrote:
If the incredible amount of lying, traitorous deleting of government documents , selling of the SOS office and being married to and defending an evil womanizer didn't change their minds why would anything?


Welcome to RSP! I can see you've already outfitted yourself with a Standard Opinion Kit, went with the Fox model I see.


Because nobody would ever come to that conclusion about Hillary without Fox News.

Oh, wait. I don't watch Fox News -- haven't watched it in years! And that's exactly MY opinion, too!

I guess you're wrong. Again.


I was giving the new person the benefit of the doubt. Fox is less insane than a lot of what you pedal around here.


I want to correct you to "peddle", but I'm not sure it counts if nobody's buying, and the image of someone on a tricycle made of crazy is pretty funny.
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Michael Tagge
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maxo-texas wrote:
I know she's qualified, reasonable and liberal.

She'll behave as expected and trump is a nightmare.

She's shown she can make sacrifices for the good of the party and the country. She's shown by her actions that she strongly believes in our democracy. I liked that a lot in 2008. It redeemed her in my eyes.

Your first post is too long and a bit of a core dump.
And you didn't type it- so please provide a link to the source if you are not going to give better context.

Seriously your first post is only slightly removed from a random pile of words. You need to polish it.

tldr; I do not think of clinton as a flipflopper.
At this point I am resigned to voting for Clinton in November.

However if you think she is actually "liberal", "believes in our democracy", and "can make sacrifices for the good of the party and the country" you are pretty far off base with reality.

She is a cold hard realpolitik influence peddler. She is of the Kissinger school of might makes right now. She might have cared about the middle class and poor a long time ago, but she is no longer that woman.

Perhaps it is a by-product of being a "successful" woman candidate, and it was a necessary change, but the only thing keeping her "liberal" is the near lock-step unity we have in both current political parties.
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G Rowls
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I can't vote for Clinton , the same way I can't vote for Trump and I DON'T like either of them nor agree with many their policies but of the two here is the reason I would vote Clinton.

I am more likely to get one or two things I agree with or other things I want in a highly watered down form from her.

I am not blind to the fact this also can apply to Trumps supporters but given his what appears to be his really radical flip flops on his core ideas - I'm not sure his core voters would get anything at all close to what they could live with. This of course is just my personal view.
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Mac Mcleod
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mtagge wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I know she's qualified, reasonable and liberal.

She'll behave as expected and trump is a nightmare.

She's shown she can make sacrifices for the good of the party and the country. She's shown by her actions that she strongly believes in our democracy. I liked that a lot in 2008. It redeemed her in my eyes.

Your first post is too long and a bit of a core dump.
And you didn't type it- so please provide a link to the source if you are not going to give better context.

Seriously your first post is only slightly removed from a random pile of words. You need to polish it.

tldr; I do not think of clinton as a flipflopper.
At this point I am resigned to voting for Clinton in November.

However if you think she is actually "liberal", "believes in our democracy", and "can make sacrifices for the good of the party and the country" you are pretty far off base with reality.

She is a cold hard realpolitik influence peddler. She is of the Kissinger school of might makes right now. She might have cared about the middle class and poor a long time ago, but she is no longer that woman.

Perhaps it is a by-product of being a "successful" woman candidate, and it was a necessary change, but the only thing keeping her "liberal" is the near lock-step unity we have in both current political parties.


What you say is true AND I also think she still holds and will enact liberal policies. However, I respect your rational opinion could be correct and I could be wrong. If I had to compare tho - I'd go for an LBJ type over someone who completely forgot their liberal background.
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Michael Tagge
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maxo-texas wrote:
What you say is true AND I also think she still holds and will enact liberal policies. However, I respect your rational opinion could be correct and I could be wrong. If I had to compare tho - I'd go for an LBJ type over someone who completely forgot their liberal background.
I'm not contradicting you on anything substantial, just that Clinton the human being is disconnected from Clinton the politician.

Frankly I am flabbergasted (and have been for the longest time) about how removed from reality both parties' platforms seem to be. While I understand the United States is far from a monolithic culture (where the life of a midwesterner is completely alien to someone from NYC) I think the challenges of the 2020's are already pretty clear at this point. The biggest challenge in the future will be the disconnect between the value a human adds to the economy and the value they need to consume to have a life with dignity.

The single most valuable thing our government could enact would be a comprehensive single payer healthcare system. However the watered down POS that is ObamaCare is a half measure that does more harm that good (look at the current epipen nonsense). Hell, Republicans should be jumping out of their seats trying to enact it if they actually cared about their fellow man. I'm at a loss about how one party is pro-life yet anti-healthcare.

The second most important thing we need to do is prevent wealth from accumulating in the hands of dynastic families. Taxes on the top should be far higher than they are today. Estate taxes above $10,000,000 should be punitive (frankly the children of the wealthy get enough of an advantage growing up that it should be unnecessary to have anything handed down except privately owned businesses under $25 million).

The third rational plank of a reasonable party would be to drastically reduce the military and redirect those monies to infrastructure, to include rolling out Internet reform to reign in our disgraceful Internet monopolies whose profit seeking makes us the embarassment of every country except Australia and Canada (seriously what's up Canada?). I would include in that our government should do everything it can to stop supporting monopolistic companies instead of spending public funds to hold back innovation.

Frankly Bernie Sanders was the only one who had a glimmer of these rational policies and was remotely forward looking. All I can say for Clinton is four more years of a nation in idle could be better than Trump.
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Lynette
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knucklesamwich wrote:
If the incredible amount of lying, traitorous deleting of government documents , selling of the SOS office and being married to and defending an evil womanizer didn't change their minds why would anything?


Who said many minds haven't been changed?

When Clinton was First Lady, and people talked about her running for office one day I wouldn't have thought, hell no I don't want her for President.

Now ... Hell NO, I don't want her for President is exactly how I feel.

HOWEVER... I want Trump even LESS. I would literally be willing to pick a name out of a hat from the general population over Trump. Sure that MAY end up as a disaster... but I like the odds better of any random person over a known self absorbed Jackass with a megalomania tendency.

Note I am very concerned about the Supreme Court balance and for that reason I really REALLY wanted to see a Republican in office this next round. UNTIL Trump got the nomination.

Now Hilary is my choice despite her many MANY flaws.

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