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Subject: Is anyone gathering data for the lore of Myth? rss

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David Griffin
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Anyone trying to "fill in" the lands of Myth map from Megacon? The map is really beautiful but I would like some context in which to place the adventures. Anyone hosting a wiki or something that has an accumulation of what Megacon or us players have made up about what goes on in the various cities and what kind of world it is?

For a start, what kind of world is it? Is it a "normal" fantasy world with monsters here and there, and city states here and there but basically functional? Or is a world where things have totally collapsed and the people are being overwhelmed by the monsters (aka the darkness)? Are we seeing the last stand of civilization or just the usual problems of a reasonably well functioning world?
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Anyone trying to "fill in" the lands of Myth map from Megacon? The map is really beautiful but I would like some context in which to place the adventures. Anyone hosting a wiki or something that has an accumulation of what Megacon or us players have made up about what goes on in the various cities and what kind of world it is?

For a start, what kind of world is it? Is it a "normal" fantasy world with monsters here and there, and city states here and there but basically functional? Or is a world where things have totally collapsed and the people are being overwhelmed by the monsters (aka the darkness)? Are we seeing the last stand of civilization or just the usual problems of a reasonably well functioning world?


This should be part of the Journeyman Rules book - at least that's the expectation I got from the description and comments from McG on KS.



I took a picture of the map that's included with the Book at last year's Gencon so you can get a feel for the area they are covering. Also each of the new modules in JM takes place somewhere on this map.

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David Griffin
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I'll definitely want to buy it if I can (presumably on eBay or if I'm really lucky the Megacon Game store).

But have we heard anything about what this world is actually like? It's not just trying to make this into a RPG either. I mean what monsters go together? Which minibosses are likely to show up for different races? Where do the traps come from? Can crawlers actually set up a trap? If I encounter Etrus, is he friendly or an enemy? etc. etc.

Even if you just want some information about how to populate the tiles, it's useful to know a little.

It always circles back to what this game is. If it's a simple boardgame (with little or no progression) then the story is important as a theme, but not as important. Think Mage Knight. If it's a RPG like dungeon crawler, then it needs all the background it can get and that background raises the stakes and makes it more fun to play. Think Shadows of Brimstone. But with one foot in both worlds, how much theme do they owe us? I don't know but I think I want more because even as a simple (or not so simple) board game, it should have more. Mage Knight at least gives you a synopsis of what is happening in the world before the game starts.
 
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John
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MM post like that of the map remind me that I can't wait for JM to ship. That is all.
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whiskemuscles wrote:
MM post like that of the map remind me that I can't wait for JM to ship. That is all.


I'm with you John. I really hope what's delivered lives up to the expectations I have based on Myth 1.0/2.0. I still have a pretty sour taste in my mouth having been through RECON. I think/hope a smooth delivery of JM with quality matching the miniatures and tiles from 1.0 will go a ways towards restoring some faith in the company - speaking for myself only of course.

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carbon_dragon wrote:
I'll definitely want to buy it if I can (presumably on eBay or if I'm really lucky the Megacon Game store).


Yeah, this book will be somewhat a collectors item, I suspect. They had a similar item in their recent RECON KS that I saw firsthand. It was fantastic. I have pretty high hopes for this book based on what I saw in RECON - hopefully not too high.

FWIW, they did sell the RECON book to people through their website. It was pretty limited quantities if I recall correctly. I suspect you'll have an opportunity to get this through Megacon instead of what will likely be inflated prices on auction sites. Just keep your eyes peeled for some sort of announcement here.

carbon_dragon wrote:
But have we heard anything about what this world is actually like? It's not just trying to make this into a RPG either. I mean what monsters go together? Which minibosses are likely to show up for different races? Where do the traps come from? Can crawlers actually set up a trap? If I encounter Etrus, is he friendly or an enemy? etc. etc.


Very little. This was intentional from the beginning. Megacon told the community they had little to no lore for Myth because they didn't want to taint our own play experiences. They claimed this approach allowed us more freedom to roleplay however we wanted instead of being confined to a world they dictated. Judging from the comments on KS and here on BGG, most people want more lore and backstory. To Megacon's credit, they listened and created this for JM. Outside of anyone translating these modules, I don't think anyone can really tell you much about the world of Myth.

carbon_dragon wrote:
It always circles back to what this game is. If it's a simple boardgame (with little or no progression) then the story is important as a theme, but not as important. Think Mage Knight. If it's a RPG like dungeon crawler, then it needs all the background it can get and that background raises the stakes and makes it more fun to play. Think Shadows of Brimstone. But with one foot in both worlds, how much theme do they owe us? I don't know but I think I want more because even as a simple (or not so simple) board game, it should have more. Mage Knight at least gives you a synopsis of what is happening in the world before the game starts.


Personally I fall into "wanting more lore" camp. I can see their point on official lore getting in the way of roleplaying. Now I don't happen to agree with it and feel its an excuse to justify not fleshing out the world. Regardless, they've now done this (I am trusting them here) and we should have a glimpse of this lore when Wave2 arrives towards the end of the year.

Unfortunately the Book isn't arriving until Wave3 ... unless I've missed something, this wave hasn't even entered production, so there's no telling when this might arrive.
 
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Marcus Taylor
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Mistermannindy wrote:
I still have a pretty sour taste in my mouth having been through RECON. I think/hope a smooth delivery of JM with quality matching the miniatures and tiles from 1.0 will go a ways towards restoring some faith in the company - speaking for myself only of course.


While I actually like the Myth Recon stuff, I agree totally about the Recon KS. Most of us signed up on the back of Myth, and I think the whole fiasco damaged MCG and our trust in them.

I think we need a smooth delivery of Journeyman, as you say. I'd have felt so much more hopeful for that if Nikki was still around.

It's telling that you, of all people, are wary of the future. You've been a loyal supporter for them - not zealous or fanatical, but always positive and willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's fans like you they really can't afford to lose.

Back to the original question, there's very little info on the world so far. This was intentional initially, to leave as much as possible a blank slate for the players to fill in as they wished. But so many of the fans wanted more, so from JM onwards they have said we will see more information about the world. I think Endevor has mentioned that the JM quests he's been translating fill in a lot more of the Myth world than previously, so here's hoping for that.



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John
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MM and Marcus Did you like the Recon gameplay?
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whiskemuscles wrote:
MM and Marcus Did you like the Recon gameplay?


Good question, but alas I can't answer it. The KS nonsense really killed the buzz for me. When I received it, I just put it at the back of the closet, and never opened it up. I keep meaning to go through it all and see what's missing (inevitably everyone has something missing) but with no real list of what I should and shouldn't have, there's no real impetus for me to do so.

I also didn't like the minis or the boards; the quality wasn't what I'd expect from MCG.

It's one of those jobs I need to do on a rainy weekend I guess, but I'm not looking forward to it. To be honest, I'm tempted to get rid of it at what I paid for it, just so someone can take it off my hands. It's a shame. There was a time I was looking forward to it.
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whiskemuscles wrote:
MM and Marcus Did you like the Recon gameplay?


I wanted to so badly, John.

I received Wave1 .... watched a bunch of videos and just never felt it clicked with me (I had play tested it, so I knew what was coming). The reports of poor quality components and some fiddly aspects scared me off. I ended up selling the entire unopened pledge (Myth content and all) at a time when I could get out from under it.

A few weeks later I had sellers remorse and stopped by and purchased CT from Nikki (ironically I was there to discuss how to introduce new players to Myth). It was a cobbled together version that McG had put together from multiple units in an attempt to get some saleable units for their webstore. They sent the rest of the inventory back to China shortly thereafter.

I wanted to like this game so much. At this point I was much less financially invested and figured for $40 I should give it a real shot. I did. I played solo and also along with my buddy (RandomFleming). I probably got 4-5 games in solo and a couple more in a group. It never resonated with me. I didn't care for a fair amount of what was in it. Just a personal thing. I know there are plenty here on BGG that think its the bomb. I just never felt it. Couple that with the poor quality components (even the cherry picked version was shoddy), only slightly better than "army man" quality miniatures, and the way Megacon was treating customers and I just had to get rid of it. Fortunately, I was able to find a buyer that really wanted it and I got rid of RECON a second time.

A word of advice, if you opt to get this game, John don't expect anything near the quality you got with Myth.

There are a bunch of folks out there with Youtube channels that love the game and paint it in its best light. Snap2Cover and Kevin Kitchens are two such sources that I'd recommend you checkout if you want to see some gameplay videos that will help you make a more informed decision.

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David Griffin
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I came too late for the Kickstarter so I bought lots so I had no sour taste. And the first game I came across was Mercs Recon and I really liked it and thought the minis were pretty good. There are one or two issues I have with the rules but they're minor. I'm painting the last bunch of minis now!

Anyway, that line about minimal lore only makes sense if we're dealing with a low progression board game (Mage Knight). Even then I think SOME lore is necessary (or at least desirable).

If you think about it, RPGs are all about the DM creating and telling stories. But you don't make them out of whole cloth usually, you write them in the context of the world. You read the world book and get an idea based on something you're reading. Then you develop it more fully. But with no game world, the workload is too high.
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:
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If you think about it, RPGs are all about the DM creating and telling stories. But you don't make them out of whole cloth usually, you write them in the context of the world. You read the world book and get an idea based on something you're reading. Then you develop it more fully. But with no game world, the workload is too high.


That's funny, as an old-school DM and role-player, I feel just the opposite. My RPG group wrote our own adventures and created our own stories and "worlds" to place them in, and it was all the better and more interesting that each of us created our own separate worlds and lore when we DMed. And I am doing the same thing with Myth. That's part of the fun.
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David Griffin
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I've run across GMs like that with their own worlds. For me, I never had that much time outside of work to spend doing world building. I commend the people who do, but I prefer to start out in a place with a history, factions, cities, and so on and just write the adventures. I would even use pre-published adventures. We weaved our adventures around the notables in Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms.
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John
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Thanks Marcus and MM.

MM I had sold my pledge for cost during the JM kickstarter. I have been playing more solo recently (the two little ones make it hard to find the time). Saw some things on recon and was thinking about buying an eBay pledge. Definitely not going to now. Do you know if they are reprinting with better components? Is the AP on there we store now a better copy they had shipped in for GenCon?

I didn't follow a lot with the kickstarter once I sold. Has your relationship with MCG gone sour?
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David Griffin
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Here is a probably rough idea of a general world overview and some very very slight fleshing out of a "starting area". Not a finished product, I'm just trying to demonstrate what some superstructure might look like within which you could write an adventure. Don't judge me too harshley on my prose.

The Lands of Myth were once a place of power and beauty. The King of High Haldor ruled the lands from the Dawn’s Light Cathedral and all was right with the world … well perhaps not entirely right, but moderately stable. And then the darkness came.

At first, the darkness was manifest only in small subtleties, visible only to the most observant. After centuries of stability, unfortunately, none of these “most observant” people were actually in the royal family or their retainers. The triumph of order is usually good in theory, but it did tend to get a little stale without some chaos to keep the pot stirred and bring in some new blood.

It was never clear if the darkness was the intention of dark gods or demons, or merely the collapse of a society too corrupt to survive. But in either case, the rulers began to believe in order over the good of the people. They became less interested in solving problems and more interested in the pageantry of their empire. It was as if the monsters sensed the opportunities that the King of Haldor’s pre-occupation offered them. Crawler hives began to creep in on the boundaries of the empire. Grubber war bands started nibbling at the edges of the empire. There were outbreaks of Sycline infestation that destroyed whole villages. There were undead appearing out of the ruins of Tu Mau. And more and more villages and cities found themselves on their own to stem the dark tide.

It might have gone on that way for centuries, but perhaps the darkness did hide a dark intelligence. The King of Haldor was assassinated and the resulting question of succession turned into the “Great War of Succession” which went on for nearly 10 years and when it was done, Haldor was smoldering ruin. Cities and villages did their best to protect themselves from the monsters but no-one was watching the big picture and the spread of civilization narrowed as more outlying towns and villages succumbed to the slow tide of the darkness.

Bratfurt:

Bratfurt is a long way from anywhere. As a community it has not changed that much for decades or perhaps centuries. The Crawlers were always problematic. The odd hunting party would burrow up from the earth and establish a hive here and there. The local militia (or a suitable group of adventurers) would go find and destroy them. On occasion a party of troops from Three Rivers or Moonglow Spire would do the honors. There were seldom fatalities, but there were the occasional lost sheep or other stock.

These days, Bratfurt seldom sees troops, and the town militia can barely protect the town. There are more crawlers around and fatalities are common. Adventurers are not as common as they once were but the town takes advantage of every one they see to hire for crawler hunting missions.

But crawlers aren’t the only local danger. Recently grubbers have found their way south and are not an uncommon sight. Tailless have likewise spread from the west as far as the Bratfurt area.

But even in the midst of the slow spread of the darkness, there is cause for hope. From the current generation of Bratfurt youth, as well as a renegade Tailless (though he has his tail) a group is forming that has had considerable success in holding back the darkness. They have taken the name of a traditional organization called the Rising of the Light. In ancient times they were a religious military order who defended Haldor from the Darkness. Each member took the name of his profession – Soldier, Acolyte, Apprentice, Archer, Brigand, Hunter, Alchemist, and so on.

Bratfurt is a reasonable complete small town. There is the usual tavern and town center. There is an abbey just outside of town including two very promising young acolytes. There is a retired mage who trains young apprentices. The town guard which recruits aggressively among young men of age in town is known for it’s exceptional soldiers. And lastly, the nearby woods have produced some of the best archers in a generation, as well has hunters and druids. Adding to the mix are a few spriggans also from the wood and an Huranii (now degraded into the Tailless) rogue who escaped from the Rat King.

For reasons nobody knows, the Crawlers have recently been encountered with Grubbers. It may be that the Grubbers are responsible for the uptick in traps set on the trails around Bratfurt. Some murders and a great deal more thefts may be related to the influx of tailless. Our Huranii friend is silent on this point.

There are rumors of a new advanced academy forming in Blackwall. Our new heroes have visions of being part of it’s initial class, but they’ll need considerable experience first.
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Marcus Taylor
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whiskemuscles wrote:
Has your relationship with MCG gone sour?


Alas, most Myth detractors started out as fans. At the beginning, JimBob was a regular poster, making a huge effort to help out and help people get into the game.

While I wouldn't ever speak for MMIndy, who has always been a positive force on these boards, I think a lot of fans are disappointed that MCG hasn't improved as much as we'd hoped or learned their lessons. Recon did a lot of damage to the brand, something even MCG admitted.

Some of us who remain are fine with MCG, some of us are not. The latter seem to be trying to enjoy the game despite MCG, while realising its flaws.

I'm guessing a lot of us are hoping that a smooth delivery of Journeyman will steady the ship and reassure us. Frankly, the last thing MCG need now is another fiasco like Recon. So we cross our fingers and hope lessons have been learned, hope we can go back to just discussing the game.
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That's a good effort, David. And I don't think anything can really be 'wrong' as it's intended that you personalise a lot of this yourself. There are all sorts of questions about Myth we could answer. Where are the other elves and dwarves outside of the Heroes? Where are the Mongoose people? What caused the Huraani to fall from grace? Why to Sycline ands Crawlers hate each other? What's the deal with the Acolyte's faith? If Bobby can break away from the Darkness, what about others of his kind?

I kind of get the impression Myth is a 'Points of Light' world with lots of monsters and untamed areas and the occasional settlement. I also get the impression it's something of a 'crapsack world' seeing how most of the quests end unhappily.

As Judy said above, some people like to make up their own stuff, others like to tweak something that already exists.

I'm actually a fan of NOT explaining everything. Little hints and allusions to greater events are fine for a game like this, it helps the mystery. Some things, like Tom Bombadil in Lord of the Rings, were never intended to have an answer. And I actually liked Star Wars more before the Expanded Universe, when we didn't know what a 'Lord of the Sith' or the 'Clone Wars' were, when we didn't know much about all the weird races in the Cantina.
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Endevor Rovedne
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I havn't see anything from the special book so i can't talk about that.

But i have translated the 2 modules we will receive with wave 2 (and the proofreading is not done yet it is a huge work). It is not like a rpg book explaining this part of the culture or the geography of this region. It tells you a story, it focus on a specific part of the past of this universe (it has some kind of indiana jones feeling you will see).
It feels like impresionism, they don't want to describe everything clinically but adding touch after touch to the world's description.
It was like that with the 1.0 quests, you had a chain that made you learn a lot about Huranii's origins it is my favourite i think way more interesting than the red wedding (my pov of course).

To that in these 2 modules they added a sense of overarching story, with ennemy figures you will probably fight/meet later (i don't want to spoil). But again they don't explain the plot and put everything on the table, it is subtle, only hints on these 2. I havn't seen the other modules (i am focussed on what translation will be printed right now i havn't requested them).

You may like it or not, it is relly a question of preference, i am not really interested by an encyclopedia on the world of myth (i should be ashamed maybe but i did not even took the book ) but learn quest after quest a sub part of the verse. Again i don't know at all what will be in the book.
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Tobias Loeffler
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Jude wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
...

If you think about it, RPGs are all about the DM creating and telling stories. But you don't make them out of whole cloth usually, you write them in the context of the world. You read the world book and get an idea based on something you're reading. Then you develop it more fully. But with no game world, the workload is too high.


That's funny, as an old-school DM and role-player, I feel just the opposite. My RPG group wrote our own adventures and created our own stories and "worlds" to place them in, and it was all the better and more interesting that each of us created our own separate worlds and lore when we DMed. And I am doing the same thing with Myth. That's part of the fun.


That's exactly how it has always worked for me, too. I've played countless RPG-systems but never really bothered to follow lore books.

What captures my imagination about MYTH is the way it is presented - from the quests and stories to the incredible artwork. Just enough to get the mind going and a lot of freedom to develop into something unique and personal.
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
whiskemuscles wrote:
Has your relationship with MCG gone sour?


Alas, most Myth detractors started out as fans. At the beginning, JimBob was a regular poster, making a huge effort to help out and help people get into the game.

While I wouldn't ever speak for MMIndy, who has always been a positive force on these boards, I think a lot of fans are disappointed that MCG hasn't improved as much as we'd hoped or learned their lessons. Recon did a lot of damage to the brand, something even MCG admitted.

Some of us who remain are fine with MCG, some of us are not. The latter seem to be trying to enjoy the game despite MCG, while realising its flaws.

I'm guessing a lot of us are hoping that a smooth delivery of Journeyman will steady the ship and reassure us. Frankly, the last thing MCG need now is another fiasco like Recon. So we cross our fingers and hope lessons have been learned, hope we can go back to just discussing the game.


Yeah, well said Marcus.

My current outlook on McG is personal, and I'll keep the details to myself as they honestly don't really matter. They were kind enough to open their doors and welcome me in as a fan and give me special access to many "behind the scenes" activities. I was lucky to experience the inner workings of a small game company and appreciate the guys welcoming me in. I now know the team personally as more than just the "corporation". For someone like myself, who's interested in the business side of gaming, the access was really cool.

But, the entire RECON KS experience is core to what happened. I won't dredge through the past - many people know the public record on McG and the shenanigans that went on during the RECON KS.

I think Myth is a great franchise and I hope to see it flourish and grow - both as an IP and in fans. I think this IP is the best thing McG has going for it and hope they invest their focus into it with that in mind.


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Endevor Rovedne
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I am sorry my point is not to start another flame war.
But would it be possible to not post the same things over and over in EVERY topic even if it has absolutely nothing to do with the OP post?

It happened a lot in the past, the constant pollution of every topic even if it had nothing to do with the discussion. When we are discussing the company or how you think they treat their backer i have no grudge at all. But in this case i really don't see the point except if your objective is to antagonise everyone again.

Again most of the time i agree with at least a part of what you are saying but for those who want to talk about the actual game it is really tiring.

You will probably say it is because i am on the "other side" (not my expression but used a lot on the KS page), i prefer to usually answer facts about what i know and not participate on the multiple conflicts. I am not trying to say shut up and don't talk about MCGs problems, just please not on EVERY topic there is.

Is my position at least undestandable?
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Endevor wrote:
I am sorry my point is not to start another flame war.
But would it be possible to not post the same things over and over in EVERY topic even if it has absolutely nothing to do with the OP post?


Just so we're clear on who it is that you're directing this towards, please specifically let us know who you're calling out. Just so there's no unnecessary flamage.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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I really don't want to anatagonize you or anybody, but i am wondering if the Mercs disaster is really an answer to the question of the OP about the world of myth.

I knew i shouldn't have told that because the subject is really touchy and each "side" think the other one is trying to tie the other side.

Again don't you think my position is understandable as someone who want to talk about the game? I have never say that on the topics related to the delivery or even the way people think MCG is treating their backers.
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Can't agree with you more, Endevor. Same ppl, in different topics keep on repeating same thing over and over again. Every topic, no matter what is it about, ending up with same "McG don't treat customers right". Absolutely not helpful, too much emotional and personal.
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Endevor Rovedne
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Again i said it myself, i agree about some of these critics and i don't have any problems discussing it on the related topics.
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