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Grimslingers» Forums » Rules

Subject: A few (hopefully not obvious) questions rss

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Leo Brooks
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Hey

Just got my game this week and I am super pumped. Thanks for mentioning me as an item designer in the rules, though I think that stretches my contribution a bit...

Played through as a 2 player duel and as a 4 player free-for-all with just the basic elements so far and I am a bit confused about a few things, would love clarification.

1. Passing.
If I choose to pass, I gain 2 EP, I get my cards back in my hand, but do I still take damage from any spells attacking me? Am I dodging a bullet or just gaining EP?

2. Contested VS Uncontested resolution.
In a game with only elements, everyone is resolving at the same time. So we should all roll to see who goes first, no matter if there is an automatic win situation between players (i.e. Water beating Earth)? Then if there is a face off situation it should only be resolved when one player in the face off reaches his order in the die roll order?

This was the most confusing element of the game for me. I re-read this in the rules several times and I am still not sure if I have it right. (just as an aside, I wonder how this would play out in an 8 player free-for-all game, it could end up with loads of tie breaking rolls, if everyone just used elemental spells)

3. Discard piles
Discard piles are face up, but should I be able to see all of my opponents discarded cards or just the last one added to the pile. Do I have to request to see opponent's discarded cards or should they be piled in such a way as to see all of them? This obviously affects my choices for what to play as well.

4. Targets
If I am green player targeting red player in a multi player game and I hit them with a spell, as long as they are not targeting me resulting in a face off or they use some other card FX, my spell hits them and they take damage, correct?

5. Face-Off
Does it matter who takes the first card? Is there a way to determine who should?

6. Dark & Light
The base game comes with one set of dark and light cards, but the kickstarted pack comes with a few more. Should these ever get mixed in to the duels/free-for-all games or just in co-op mode?

Maybe these questions are dumb but they all came up in our run throughs so I figure others might have them as well. I need to have stuff spelled out for me in a painfully obvious way, which I don't think is the intent of the rules. Would love some clarification when you have a minute, Steve.

Congrats on a great game. I think it is going to generate a lot of buzz. It has so many levels of enjoyment, such an interesting little world you've created. Liking it a lot so far.

Leo
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Stephen Gibson
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Hey Leo,

The item credits are for those who paid to have an item made SO you qualify!

1. Passing is usually never a good idea. It only gains you 2 EP, and you are open to attacks. So no, you're not dodging a bullet.

2. Rolling to figure out who's spell resolves first is important, as it could mean life or death. So yes, if you all have the same RN on your spell, then you all need to roll. Contested cards only need to roll once for both players.

Note: I don't recommend just playing with elements spells once you understand how they work. The rulebook is teaching you in parts, elements, then signatures, then items and archetypes. I would recommend always playing with at least signature spells.

3. You should only see the last one added to the pile. So you have SOME information, but not all of it. I find it's often best to think about how not to be beaten, then on how to beat your opponent.

For instance, if they have water on the top of their discard pile, you know it's safe to play earth. You don't know what they are going to play though, so it's harder to gauge what you could play that would beat them. Hope that makes sense!

The rulebook shows you that discarded cards go on top of each other, so you only see the top one.

4. Yes. The only time being contested matters is if you both play element spells. Otherwise your spell is always going to resolve (unless someone hits you with a HUSH or something).

5. The rules state that you draw one number card for each player, and the player with the highest number gets the first turn. Remember, you take turns drawing or not drawing.

6. So you should have 4 sets of light and dark element spells if you have the collector's pack (which you do). I would only use those in a 4 player versus. They are not meant to be used in the co-op game at all. They are not signature spells, but elements, and the coop states that you only have the basic 6 elements. So if you're using them in versus, everyone gets 8 element spells and 2 signatures.

7. Rules are always meant to be spelled out in a painfully obvious way, but it's difficult to do so sometimes with a limited page count (production costs).

Thanks for the congrats! Additionally, here are 12 tutorials that go over each aspect of the game (except for the promo packs).

Tutorial 1: Basic setup and Elemental Play
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdl3xJTB-HI)

Tutorial 2: How to use Signature Spells
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrtgqtQLTys)

Tutorial 3: How to use Items
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p157bruNnmw)

Tutorial 4: How to use Archetypes
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zq_f9gZuC0)

Tutorial 5: How to play with 3 or More!
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1mzZm2h03w)

Tutorial 6: How to play with Quick Draw Rules
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ6aIjqZG00)

Tutorial 7: Setting up the Tall Tales Game Space
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36GbYDVUkz0)

Tutorial 8: Setting up your Character Space in Tall Tales
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QmhcGnf0YM)

Tutorial 9: How the Map Works
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbbWiXn9hq0)

Tutorial 10: How to Play Through the Campaign
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-bT79j1RsA)

Tutorial 11: How a Tall Tale Duel Works
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTKzGayRgY)

Tutorial 12: How Defeat Works in Tall Tales
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtyAMrflqB4)
 
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Andrew
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When on the Lone Titan node, can I access my stash to discard items, even though this isn't a rest or standoff phase? Same question, with an event like Highway Robbery, if there is an option to discard items, can they be from my stash?

And is there a max size to ones stash? Also, if I gain an item in any way, it can only go into my stash if I'm at rest or standoff?

As you can tell, I'm struggling with stash...
 
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Stephen Gibson
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Well, on page 15 of the rulebook it does state that you can only access your stash on rest nodes and in combat, and when the storybooklet says you can.

HOWEVER, I plan to change that in the 2nd edition of the game so that you can access your stash on any landmark. You straight up need to in order to hire hank and use some of the other services.
 
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Stephen Gibson
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A mistake I wish I had caught earlier.
 
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Andrew
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I appreciate the clarification! Also, in solo Tall Tales mode, what happens when I reach 0 EP? If I'm asked to reduce it further, does anything happen?
 
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Stephen Gibson
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alamb1101 wrote:
I appreciate the clarification! Also, in solo Tall Tales mode, what happens when I reach 0 EP? If I'm asked to reduce it further, does anything happen?


Nope. Just means you can't spend it to save yourself from bad things
 
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Andrew
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Then things aren't exactly on the up and up with this bandit encounter...
 
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Andrew
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Stephen, question -

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Do the bandits fought in the action of Chapter 1, Part 5 have general creature cards and a creature modifier in addition to the Spector skill cards?
 
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Stephen Gibson
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alamb1101 wrote:
Stephen, question -

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Do the bandits fought in the action of Chapter 1, Part 5 have general creature cards and a creature modifier in addition to the Spector skill cards?


No creature modifiers or general creature cards. If the game doesn't say to add those then don't as a genereal rule.
 
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Leo Brooks
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Thanks for all the great help, Steve.

Again, these questions might seem obvious, but I am just asking stuff as it comes up in the play throughs.

When playing signature spells, resolution number trumps all, correct? In other words, If I play a card with a resolution number of 4 against an opposing player and he plays an elemental spell against me, I hit and he doesn't. End of story, right?

There was some thought that it means I hit him first and he hits me back. The rules are unclear on this point.

Also, back to Dark and Light Spells. If I understand you right, they should never just randomly be inserted in the signature deck?

I really like the Dark and Light elements. Maybe a bit over powered but they make things interesting, and give you some chance to heal, which I think players like. Any chance we could get more of them when doing 5-8 player games?

Another question is about signature spell energy cost. Is the cost spent from the energy tracker if the card is played, or only if it is resolved? For instance, we had one player play paralyze and another player play scourge. Even though scourge gets discarded, does the player who played it still have to deduce the energy? We had a similar question with Pandora. When the player played pandora, he drew pierce and played it. Does it cost him 2 energy, or none because pandora's cost is 0?

Thanks again. Trying to get as many plays of this game as I can so when I go to BGG con this year I can teach and play with my friends there. Will you be coming with the game? I think it would do really well in the new games section and I would be happy to help you man the booth.


Leo

P.S. One last suggestion. We found it easier for everyone to have their own dice. But even then the resolution in the aftermath stage seemed like it could have gone smoother. It was hard in the 6 player game for everyone to determine then remember their order. That's where the dice could come in handy. Once the resolution order is determined we could all put our dice from 1 to 6. Afterwards, it made sense that we should play lowest number wins as well, to keep dice resolution and card resolution in sync. Still a bit clunky but it's the best we could come up with.



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Stephen Gibson
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Glad you're playing the game! I have no problem answering your questions but I do think watching the video tutorials I posted would clear everything up for you if you find the rulebook lacking.

Anywho, let's get to it:

Resolution number does not trump all. You resolve all cards starting with an RN of 1 and through to 10. Page 8 in the rulebook goes over all of this.

The only time a card does not resolve is:

1) A player dies before it's their turn to resolve their card.
2) A player did not have enough EP to pay for the spell's cost.
3) A card's FX requires another card or cards in play to not resolve (like the HUSH or Paralyze signature spell).
4) Your element spell is weak to the other.
5) You lost/tied in a face-off.

More Dark and Light cards: The short answer is yes, eventually you'll be able to buy more of them, but not for awhile I think.

Energy Costs: Page 8 point 2. Everyone pays the energy costs of their spells before any card FX are resolved. As for Pandora, if a card, like pandora, doesn't tell you to pay the EP costs of a new card (like Foresight does) then you don't. The only time you pay the EP costs of a card is if the card's FX tells you or at the start of the aftermath phase for the card you played in the Draw phase.

BGG Con: I hadn't planned on going, but I assume Greenbrier Game's is so likely someone will be there with Grimslingers! Who knows, they might get me to attend . Where is it??

Your suggestion: It's a good one. That is a problem with the 5-8 player games. I haven't come up with a proper remedy yet but yours seems like a decent home-made fix. Thanks!

 
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Stephen Gibson
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Here's what I think is a decent fix for everyone having to roll who have cards with the same RN.

If more than one player has played a card with the same RN, they must roll to determine who's will resolve first. The player who rolls the highest will go first. Players who tie for the highest number must re-roll.

Once the first player has resolved their card, everyone else will resolve theirs in a clockwise fashion from the first player.


So, this way everyone gets a chance to go first, and no one has to remember what the turn order is.
 
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Leo Brooks
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ssgibson wrote:
Here's what I think is a decent fix for everyone having to roll who have cards with the same RN.

If more than one player has played a card with the same RN, they must roll to determine who's will resolve first. The player who rolls the highest will go first. Players who tie for the highest number must re-roll.

Once the first player has resolved their card, everyone else will resolve theirs in a clockwise fashion from the first player.


So, this way everyone gets a chance to go first, and no one has to remember what the turn order is.


Yes, we had talked about this as well. I'll try it next time. THNX
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Leo Brooks
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ssgibson wrote:
Glad you're playing the game! I have no problem answering your questions but I do think watching the video tutorials I posted would clear everything up for you if you find the rulebook lacking.



Yes, I've watched a few of the videos, and they are helpful, but I just in the ones I watched you often have two or three player games and we have been playing 4-6 player games mostly and things are not rolling quite the way they might. I'm excited for your success and for the game but want to make sure everyone who plays with me is getting excited and not put off by unclear gameplay.

ssgibson wrote:

Anywho, let's get to it:

Resolution number does not trump all. You resolve all cards starting with an RN of 1 and through to 10. Page 8 in the rulebook goes over all of this.

The only time a card does not resolve is:

1) A player dies before it's their turn to resolve their card.
2) A player did not have enough EP to pay for the spell's cost.
3) A card's FX requires another card or cards in play to not resolve (like the HUSH or Paralyze signature spell).
4) Your element spell is weak to the other.
5) You lost/tied in a face-off.


OK. So just to be absolutely clear, I understand that I can hit you, you can hit me, as long as my card's resolution number is lower than yours. Only elemental cards with no clear winner, and the same resolution number should ever need to do the face off.

ssgibson wrote:

More Dark and Light cards: The short answer is yes, eventually you'll be able to buy more of them, but not for awhile I think.


Cool. We already talked about how easy/cool it would be to expand this game as friends last night.

ssgibson wrote:

Energy Costs: Page 8 point 2. Everyone pays the energy costs of their spells before any card FX are resolved. As for Pandora, if a card, like pandora, doesn't tell you to pay the EP costs of a new card (like Foresight does) then you don't. The only time you pay the EP costs of a card is if the card's FX tells you or at the start of the aftermath phase for the card you played in the Draw phase.


Thanks for the clarification. We thought that was the way it should be, just wanted to be clear.

ssgibson wrote:

BGG Con: I hadn't planned on going, but I assume Greenbrier Game's is so likely someone will be there with Grimslingers! Who knows, they might get me to attend . Where is it??


It's in Dallas. Wednesday Nov 15 to Sunday Nov 20. It's been sold out for months. If Greenbriar has a booth or can get one, you should go. Grimslingers could be exhibited in the hot games room. It's the best dang convention for open gaming anywhere, I reckon. Seriously though, you and Greenbriar would do very well there, I think.

I still don't have a ticket confirmed but have a good lead on one. I'll be really sorry if I can't make it.

ssgibson wrote:

Your suggestion: It's a good one. That is a problem with the 5-8 player games. I haven't come up with a proper remedy yet but yours seems like a decent home-made fix. Thanks!


The other thing we decided was that play mats would add a lot to the game, particularly if you included some of the stellar art work. Just something with areas for all of the card piles you are working with. I'm sure you have thought about this. If there was a way to get these going I would totally buy a few. From playing years of pokemon It just seems like card games work better with play mats. laugh
 
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Stephen Gibson
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'OK. So just to be absolutely clear, I understand that I can hit you, you can hit me, as long as my card's resolution number is lower than yours. Only elemental cards with no clear winner, and the same resolution number should ever need to do the face off."

Yep!

"The other thing we decided was that play mats would add a lot to the game, particularly if you included some of the stellar art work. Just something with areas for all of the card piles you are working with. I'm sure you have thought about this. If there was a way to get these going I would totally buy a few. From playing years of pokemon It just seems like card games work better with play mats. laugh"

A few fans of the game have uploaded their own versions of player mats to BGG, you should check em out!

I will probably do my own versions in time. Greenbrier doesn't want to make any because they aren't lucrative. Grimslingers is definitely a game that could benefit from them though!
 
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Cali _Gozer
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When an active card for a creature states that they gain X amount of HP/EP, is that in addition to their max HP/EP stated on the back of the creature card and modifier? Or is the creature not allowed to gain HP/EP past their max?

Example, Dune Worm has HP of 5 and a card allows them to gain 3+ HP. Would the max now be 8 or will it remain at 5?
 
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Stephen Gibson
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Cali_Gozer wrote:
When an active card for a creature states that they gain X amount of HP/EP, is that in addition to their max HP/EP stated on the back of the creature card and modifier? Or is the creature not allowed to gain HP/EP past their max?

Example, Dune Worm has HP of 5 and a card allows them to gain 3+ HP. Would the max now be 8 or will it remain at 5?


Can't ever go above max.
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