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Chris R.
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"'If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor' was President Barack Obama's signature catchphrase...

Now Obamacare's flagship website, healthcare.gov, no longer even addresses the issue.

...the section in question was the first public (if indirect) admission by the Obama administration that the president's promise was less than a 'guarantee.' ...in July 2013, the website told consumers that they "may be able to keep your current doctor," in contrast to the president's unequivocal statement: 'Here is a guarantee that I've made. If you have insurance that you like, then you will be able to keep that insurance. If you've got a doctor that you like, you will be able to keep your doctor.'

The original website contained a section entitled 'Can I keep my own doctor?', later revised to 'How to keep your doctor.'

Just before open enrollment began last year, however, this section was dropped. ...

the White House also removed the 'Reality Check' from its own website where "...debunk(ing) the myth that (Obamacare) will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors.'"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/obamacare-website-no-longer-ad...



Sorry President Obama, but it's almost time to elect a new liar in chief.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Which one?

Trump, Clinton or the black bloke who is not standing?
 
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G Rowls
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my doctor objected, She didn't want to be labled a 'kept woman'!
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Chris R.
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"Overall, health-care spending across the economy reached 18.2% of gross domestic product as of June, up from 13.3% in 2000...

Middle-class households are finding more of their health-care costs are coming out of their own pockets.

...lower middle- to middle-income Americans, 'the income struggles and the health-care struggles together are a really potent issue."

In 2015, 8% of Americans’ household spending went toward health care, up from 5.8% in 2007, according to the Labor Department."

I guess that's about a 38% increase during the Obama administration.

"...avoiding buying anything new in favor of shopping at consignment stores and garage sales.
...skip travel overseas this year and go camping instead.
...spend more time fishing and elk hunting to avoid buying meat at the supermarket.

...the impact was as much psychological as financial.

...the average price of brand-name drugs rose 16.2% in 2015, and is up 98.2% since 2011... the leukemia medication Gleevec, its list price has risen from under $24,000 for a year’s supply, to over $121,400..."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/burden-of-health-care-costs-move...

"They don't appear to be saving $2500 a year (that Obama promised)." -- Byron York ‏ August 26, 2016

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Wendell
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What's important is the decrease in the RATE of change. Inflation in the medical sector and in the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.

It's still higher than overall inflation, which is a problem. But it's simply wrong to imply that "health care costs have gone up, therefore Obamacare is to blame".

I hope that isn't too subtle a point.
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Chris R.
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"Seemed like practically whole purpose of Wonkblog/Vox was to reassure that Ocare wouldn't end in death spiral. Now..."
-- Mickey Kaus, a huge supporter of Obamacare


http://www.vox.com/2016/8/25/12630214/obamacare-marketplaces...

"...Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt offered the most dire and pessimistic assessment of the marketplaces' future.

Namely, he believes they've (Obamacare has) already entered a death spiral and are heading toward total collapse.

"(insurers can't price on how sick or healthy an enrollee is) and couple it with a mandate. When you do this as the Swiss or Germans do, you brutally enforce the mandate. ...

These things accelerate, as premiums keep rising.

We've had two actual death spirals: in New Jersey and in New York. New Jersey passed a law that had community rating but no mandate, so that market shrank quickly and premiums were off the wall. You look at New York and the same thing happened; they had premiums above $6,000 per month.

...subsides will have to grow substantially year after year, and that's a big question, whether Congress is willing to appropriate for that (...Affordable Care Act's tax credits is mandatory spending). The Republicans will, if Hillary [Clinton] wins, style that as corporate welfare for the insurance industry.

...In the Swiss system, there are no public insurers; the whole system is administered by private, commercial plans. They are not allowed to make any profit..."
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jeremy cobert
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wifwendell wrote:
the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.


LOL ? really ? where is this magical land where costs went down ? do you have a source or is it only going down for certain people.
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Chris R.
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jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.


LOL ? really ? where is this magical land where costs went down ? do you have a source or is it only going down for certain people.


I think my rates will have gone up 4 to 7-8 times by next year -- assuming that there are any health insurance companies left.

United Health Care and Aetna, two of the three largest companies, just left my state within the last 5 months or so -- except perhaps for some employee insurance programs for which regular mortals cannot access.
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Drew
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It's funny how pretty much everything we warned people would happen under Obamacare is coming true.



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Boaty McBoatface
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sikeospi wrote:


"Overall, health-care spending across the economy reached 18.2% of gross domestic product as of June, up from 13.3% in 2000...

Middle-class households are finding more of their health-care costs are coming out of their own pockets.

...lower middle- to middle-income Americans, 'the income struggles and the health-care struggles together are a really potent issue."

In 2015, 8% of Americans’ household spending went toward health care, up from 5.8% in 2007, according to the Labor Department."

I guess that's about a 38% increase during the Obama administration.

"...avoiding buying anything new in favor of shopping at consignment stores and garage sales.
...skip travel overseas this year and go camping instead.
...spend more time fishing and elk hunting to avoid buying meat at the supermarket.

...the impact was as much psychological as financial.

...the average price of brand-name drugs rose 16.2% in 2015, and is up 98.2% since 2011... the leukemia medication Gleevec, its list price has risen from under $24,000 for a year’s supply, to over $121,400..."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/burden-of-health-care-costs-move...

"They don't appear to be saving $2500 a year (that Obama promised)." -- Byron York ‏ August 26, 2016

Since 2007, when Obama care was first introduced?

Or another 2007?
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Drew1365 wrote:
It's funny how pretty much everything we warned people would happen under Obamacare is coming true.



Well you had your chance in 2006 and blew it.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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slatersteven wrote:
Since 2007, when Obama care was first introduced?

Or another 2007?
Yeah, both graphs are disingenuous hogwash. Since the ACA was signed into law in 2010 and it's affects wouldn't start being felt until later that year, these are totally misleading and dishonest time slices. They both include years of runaway health care increases that motivated many to support the ACA to begin with.
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Carl Parsons
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jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.


LOL ? really ? where is this magical land where costs went down ? do you have a source or is it only going down for certain people.


This right here exemplifies why you and the idiots who thumbed your post are some of the most dishonest and stupid people in this forum. I've included the full sentence that you quoted including the relevant part that is bolded. You deliberately left that part out in order to change the meaning of the quote.

Why don't you address what he really said instead of making shit up about what he said?

Quote:
Inflation in the medical sector and in the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.


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Shawn Fox
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sikeospi wrote:
"Seemed like practically whole purpose of Wonkblog/Vox was to reassure that Ocare wouldn't end in death spiral. Now..."
-- Mickey Kaus, a huge supporter of Obamacare


http://www.vox.com/2016/8/25/12630214/obamacare-marketplaces...

"...Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt offered the most dire and pessimistic assessment of the marketplaces' future.

Namely, he believes they've (Obamacare has) already entered a death spiral and are heading toward total collapse.

"(insurers can't price on how sick or healthy an enrollee is) and couple it with a mandate. When you do this as the Swiss or Germans do, you brutally enforce the mandate. ...

These things accelerate, as premiums keep rising.

We've had two actual death spirals: in New Jersey and in New York. New Jersey passed a law that had community rating but no mandate, so that market shrank quickly and premiums were off the wall. You look at New York and the same thing happened; they had premiums above $6,000 per month.

...subsides will have to grow substantially year after year, and that's a big question, whether Congress is willing to appropriate for that (...Affordable Care Act's tax credits is mandatory spending). The Republicans will, if Hillary [Clinton] wins, style that as corporate welfare for the insurance industry.

...In the Swiss system, there are no public insurers; the whole system is administered by private, commercial plans. They are not allowed to make any profit..."


So what do you propose as a solution? Easy to throw rocks at a plan written by the insurance companies, much harder to actually find a solution that works that you can actually get past the healthcare and health insurance lobby.
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Chris R.
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How Obamacare Destroyed The Middle Class In One Chart
 
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Chris R.
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ObamaCare nightmare may leave 10,000 Arizonans with no insurance options

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/08/25/sen-john-mccain-ob...

The above chart includes a missing area called Pinal County -- the canary in a coal mine -- the first county with no health insurance options.

Thanks Obama.


 
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Chris R.
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"...the chosen narrative of Connolly is to focus on the premiums paid by the overwhelming minority of healthcare consumers that actually receive subsidized rates under Obamacare.

...it ignores the skyrocketing rates that the other 95% of people, mostly middle-class Americans, have to pay.

So, here's the real math.

There are roughly 320 million people in the United States.

120 million people are covered under Medicare and Medicaid
...200 million people to be covered by 'private' health insurance plans.

...~9.5 million people, received some level of 'need-based' subsidy. News flash Department of Health and Human Services, 9.5 million people is less than 5% of the 200 million people seeking private health insurance. The other 95% is America's middle class and they're getting crushed."


...for those wondering why the 'recovery' from the 'great recession' has been so muted perhaps you need to look no further than the massive healthcare tax imposed on the middle class by Obamacare."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-26/obamacare-crushing-...
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Boaty McBoatface
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Conservatives fighting 2016 likes it's 2009.

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Mac Mcleod
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sikeospi wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.


LOL ? really ? where is this magical land where costs went down ? do you have a source or is it only going down for certain people.


I think my rates will have gone up 4 to 7-8 times by next year -- assuming that there are any health insurance companies left.

United Health Care and Aetna, two of the three largest companies, just left my state within the last 5 months or so -- except perhaps for some employee insurance programs for which regular mortals cannot access.


Insurance companies are leaving states with rural older populations.

That's why we need a national solution.

Insurance companies were excluding anyone who needed insurance before the ACA. It was a crisis. That's why there was the political will to pass the ACA.

Look- instead of voting no to everything, republicans should work to fix the problem. Democrats and republicans working together could implement policies which result in lower costs, higher infant and adult mortality and better treatment for everyone but the very wealthy.
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Donald
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Here's the CBO's projection of health cost back in 2007. Maybe someone number oriented can compare it vs Obamacare to see how things would have been.

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-...
 
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Wendell
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jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.


LOL ? really ? where is this magical land where costs went down ? do you have a source or is it only going down for certain people.




Source: Kaiser Family Foundation.

Edit: also note in my original post, I said "Inflation in the medical sector and in the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect." NOT/NOT that premiums themselves have dropped, which your snip of my quote might be read to imply.
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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wifwendell wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.


LOL ? really ? where is this magical land where costs went down ? do you have a source or is it only going down for certain people.




Source: Kaiser Family Foundation.


Historically a major shill for Obamacare.

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Daniel
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TheChin! wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Since 2007, when Obama care was first introduced?

Or another 2007?
Yeah, both graphs are disingenuous hogwash. Since the ACA was signed into law in 2010 and it's affects wouldn't start being felt until later that year, these are totally misleading and dishonest time slices. They both include years of runaway health care increases that motivated many to support the ACA to begin with.


This is disingenuous. Companies set prices as they attempt to whether instability and upcoming events as well as per pressing realities on the ground. For example, every time Obama opens his mouth about gun control, gun sales sky rocket even though there is no gun control bill that has a hope of being passed in his term of office. The ACA environment starting becoming a reality as the bill was being discussed in Congress in terms of companies scrambling to meet the upcoming changes.
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Nothing here is a surprise. Pretty much every lie Obama and his gang of liars said has been proven to be a lie. rates skyrocket, people don't sign up. Exchanges fail or are abandoned by insurers, doctors drop out of the program and start becoming cash businesses, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands have seen rates inflate not plummet and nobody except the wealthy and the politically connected got yo keep their doctor.

but it's all either hundreds of thousands of lying liars who really have cheap insurance but are so racist they make shit up or it's republicans who made it fail, or it's lying graphs that really prove nothing -- except the non-lying graphs never appear -- yes, yes, as the lying racist conspiracy buffoons said a long time ago: this is just a plan to force single-payer on America.

We even have the Chin! claiming it was effectively Bush's fault.
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AMK
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wifwendell wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect.


LOL ? really ? where is this magical land where costs went down ? do you have a source or is it only going down for certain people.




Source: Kaiser Family Foundation.

Edit: also note in my original post, I said "Inflation in the medical sector and in the cost of health insurance premiums has dropped significantly since Obamacare went into effect." NOT/NOT that premiums themselves have dropped, which your snip of my quote might be read to imply.


Two big flaws of your chart:

1) It doesn't take into account the increase in out of pocket costs for the enrollee. If the insurer increases the deductible by 400% and doesn't increase the premium at all, then your chart would record that as a 0% increase but it would actually be a significant increase. This is relevant because the exchange plans are WAAAAY leaner than employer plans so the overall increase in member spending has increase much more than premiums have.

2) The chart excludes 2016 and 2017, which are critical because the premium increases on exchange plans have been very high (almost exclusively double digits). These would have only shown up starting in 2015, so they are underrepresented in your chart. If the later bar was 2010 to 2017 it would be much higher.
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