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Last Blitzkrieg» Forums » Rules

Subject: Dual Units rss

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Mike Willner
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As I understand it, a Dual unit could move adjacent to an enemy, execute, two Engagememts or Fire Attacks (thereby becoming Stopped) and then do an Attack. Is this correct?

I ask because I am a little fuzzy on the concept of being Finished.
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Russ Massey
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BrooklynMike wrote:
As I understand it, a Dual unit could move adjacent to an enemy, execute, two Engagememts or Fire Attacks (thereby becoming Stopped) and then do an Attack. Is this correct?

I ask because I am a little fuzzy on the concept of being Finished.


That's correct. It makes Infantry Divisions with no support to knock down, toast against an armoured division. The tank units can conduct 2 attacks by fire each without fear of loss.
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Lynn Brower
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Hello Mike,

Russ is correct and he makes a good point about vulnerability, of an infantry formation without support, to attacking armor.

I would just add that a good quality (AR 3 or better) infantry Formation in Prepared Defense is not 'toast' if it's HQ is defended.
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Dean Essig
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Also keep in mind that the ability to fire twice and then attack isn't a capability of _tank_ units, but of Dual ones (one of the strengths of the US Armor in LB for the most part is that the units are Dual).

More pure armor units would be able to fire but not attack, though they might be able to use one of their fires to conduct a Shock Attack if the situation is right for it.

Real Dual units are a nice tool to have available.
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Russ Massey
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DeanEssig wrote:
Also keep in mind that the ability to fire twice and then attack isn't a capability of _tank_ units, but of Dual ones (one of the strengths of the US Armor in LB for the most part is that the units are Dual).

More pure armor units would be able to fire but not attack, though they might be able to use one of their fires to conduct a Shock Attack if the situation is right for it.

Real Dual units are a nice tool to have available.


After two full games of Advance and Destroy it was the potency of the US Armoured divisions and their dual units there that I was impressed by!

Yep, pure non-dual amour won't be as effective. Are the US armour units in the Kesserine Pass game Dual?
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Carl Fung
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Rutan wrote:

Yep, pure non-dual amour won't be as effective. Are the US armour units in the Kesserine Pass game Dual?


Ha! Hardly. Kasserine was the prepubescent US Armored Doctrine. The 1st Armored Division were broken up into Combat Commands, but besides Task Force Kern that had a company of light tanks (he's dual), there was no real combined arms for the US Army in Kasserine. There's replete stories of the Combat Commands which would typically have a Tank Battalion and an Armored Infantry Battalion commit the Tank battalion by itself with the Infantry hanging back. No true combined arms there.

The British do have a dual unit with the Gore Task Force. It was an ad hoc unit formed from one company of 2nd Lothians (Lothians & Border Horse (Yeomanry)) and a company of 10th Bn, Rifle Brigade.

Gore and Kern are the only Allied Dual units in Kasserine besides the 81st Armored Reconnaissance Battalion which would have the typical armored cars and jeeps, but this unit did not perform all that great in the battle.
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Randy Strader
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If the attacking Dual unit uses Tac MA, and the defender is supported by projecting a Real AV ZOC, wouldn't the attacker have to drop support on the defender before it can attack (i.e., using its assault arrow capability)?
 
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Lynn Brower
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Hello Randy,

Yes, Real AV EZOC's must be driven off/removed.

Support AV EZOC's do not prevent a unit from making a Regular attack into an enemy unit in an adjacent hex.
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Mike Willner
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Where I was fuzzy is what exactly causes a unit to be Finished vs Stopped. As far as I can tell

A unit is Stopped when:
- it uses both fire events
- it enters a ZOC that forces the Stop
- it enters Stop terrain
- it enters Traffic
- it runs out of MPs

A unit is Finished when:
- it has completed a regular Attack

Otherwise, units Stop and simply have nothing else they can do (I.e. Do two ranged Engagements, and then they are Stopped and have no other options). Or is "Stopped and no further options" another way to say "Finished"?
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Lynn Brower
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Hello Mike,

You have all the situations listed except:

A unit is also finished if it cannot remove a Stop created by entering a hex containing a Real AV EZOC. See 6.0i Stopping Engagement.

Yes, stopped and no ability to do something else is not Finished but it has the same effect.

Being Stopped does not preclude making or assisting a Regular Attack or spotting for a barrage.

A Stop does preclude making a Shock Attack or moving further.
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Randy Strader
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Hi Mike,

See also this previous entry, I find it helpful to print it out:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22931920#22931920
 
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G.W.
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doclb wrote:
Hello Randy,

Yes, Real AV EZOC's must be driven off/removed.

Support AV EZOC's do not prevent a unit from making a Regular attack into an enemy unit in an adjacent hex.


Yes, although just because you can do this doesn't necessarily mean you should.

I think it's a good idea, wherever possible, to use an AV or Dual unit to fight an Engagement first and try to drop the defender's support before attempting any Regular Attack on that hex.
 
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