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Mare Nostrum: Empires» Forums » Rules

Subject: Conflicting rule re: converting province control rss

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Luke Hector
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I've noticed a rules conflict between Academy Games's rules video (very good by the way) and the rulebook with regards to converting a province that you've just conquered.

The video explains that if the conqueror has control still at the end of his future Move/Battle phase, he converts the province. This makes sense and I'm cool with it.

The rulebook instead says it's at the "BEGINNING" of the conqueror's move/battle phase. This makes no sense as there's no way you could take the province back during the trade/resources/build phases.

Presumably the video is correct, not the rulebook, but I just want to point that out to players as that's a very MAJOR rule to play wrong.
 
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zoran
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Another player could possibly conquer the newly conquered province in the same move/battle phase or the next one.
 
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Luke Hector
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Hmmm yeah I guess with the timing, of course that means attacking last gives you a huge advantage........which being the military leader you would opt to do anyway so yeah I kind of see your point. So you're saying the book is actually correct then?
 
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zoran
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Yes. When province conversion takes place at the beginning, it frees the converting legion to move that phase. Until conversion takes place other players may contest or conquer the province themselves.
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Przemyslaw Kozlowski
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It give extra power to the military leader. In one game Carthage took a province belonging to Egypt and started converting. Rome was the military leader and had a choice in the next round. If he let Carthage Move/Attack first then Carthage would finish converting before Egypt could attack back. If he let Egypt go first, Egypt could take back the territory before conversion was complete.
 
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Luke Hector
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Well it was fine for our game, though military conquest did seem to make Romans a tad powerful.........
 
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Andy Pelton
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I sent Asyncron a message about this and got a quick reply from Maximilien that the token can be changed at the End of your next Military phase (When you can choose again the occupying a control marker option)
 
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Andrew Kluessendorf
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I really don't see how the rulebook can be incorrect - not only does it specifically say that:

Quote:
If at the beginning of a Conqueror’s future Move and Battle turn his Legion still occupies an opponent’s Control Marker, he may exchange it for a Control Marker of his own at no cost. He is now this Province’s new Controlling Player.


But the listed example clearly says the same thing:

Quote:
Example: the Roman player decides to occupy Egypt’s Control Marker in Cyrenaica. The Egyptian gets all Building Resources during next round’s Collect Resources Phase. If the Roman Legion still occupies Egypt’s Control Marker at the beginning of the next round’s Roman Move and Battle turn, the Egyptian Control Marker is converted to the red Roman Control Marker.


How would both of these be printed incorrectly? I find it much more likely that the video is incorrect. Now if Maximilian at Asyncron were the designer of the game, I might have to change my opinion...

Just my opinion and our group will continue to play it as listed in the rulebook.
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Robert F-C
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This may be another instance where the Asynchron and Academy rulesets have intentionally/deliberately chosen to differ (like the victory conditions).
 
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Daniel U. Thibault
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WhereAreTheBlackDice wrote:
This may be another instance where the Asynchron and Academy rulesets have intentionally/deliberately chosen to differ (like the victory conditions).


Sure looks like it.
 
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Maximilien DA CUNHA
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Getaklue wrote:

I really don't see how the rulebook can be incorrect - not only does it specifically say that:

Quote:
If at the beginning of a Conqueror’s future Move and Battle turn his Legion still occupies an opponent’s Control Marker, he may exchange it for a Control Marker of his own at no cost. He is now this Province’s new Controlling Player.


But the listed example clearly says the same thing:

Quote:
Example: the Roman player decides to occupy Egypt’s Control Marker in Cyrenaica. The Egyptian gets all Building Resources during next round’s Collect Resources Phase. If the Roman Legion still occupies Egypt’s Control Marker at the beginning of the next round’s Roman Move and Battle turn, the Egyptian Control Marker is converted to the red Roman Control Marker.


How would both of these be printed incorrectly? I find it much more likely that the video is incorrect. Now if Maximilian at Asyncron were the designer of the game, I might have to change my opinion...

Just my opinion and our group will continue to play it as listed in the rulebook.


I am not the designer but I played more than 50 games with him. I can say that the correct rule - the rule from the designer - is what I said.

It may be a misunderstanding from Academy games.
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Marko Naumanen
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French rulebook on Asyncron website says "À la fin de sa Phase Militaire", and the example in French is also the same.

The French rulebook seems to be different from English rulebook on this.
 
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George
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I just want to clarify the difference so I understand.

English says BEGINNING of conqueror's next move/battle, French says END of conqueror's next move/battle.

So the only effective difference is whether the single army that was converting gets to move on the next turn, or whether it is stuck converting.

A significant difference, but not a huge one? I just wanted to clarify because there were comments above that made it seem like other players would possibly get a chance to attack due to the difference. But either way it gets converted on the conqueror's next turn. The power of the Military Leader controlling turn order would be the same.
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Daniel U. Thibault
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The difference is not in the phasing.

English:
At the beginning of the Move & Battle Phase, you may declare yourself at peace with an opponent (never the same opponent two Rounds in a row).
This opponent’s Legions, in all Provinces you control, are returned to their Capital City Province. For the remainder of this Round, neither of you may Battle against the other on Land or Sea, or enter the other’s controlled Provinces.

French:
At the beginning of the Move & Battle Phase, you may declare yourself at peace with an opponent (never the same opponent two Rounds in a row).
All the units of the ally that were on your Provinces are put on his Capital, and vice-versa. You cannot enter or stay in a Province where the ally has units or a control marker, and vice-versa. No land or sea battle can occur between you two.

The French bars the players from being in each other's presence (on land), not just from battling each other (which can be circumvented by having a third party to battle with).
 
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Daniel U. Thibault
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vizikahn wrote:
French rulebook on Asyncron website says "À la fin de sa Phase Militaire", and the example in French is also the same.

The French rulebook seems to be different from English rulebook on this.


Not true for the copy I fetched on July 5th (which, judging by its URL, has been there since January 2016).
 
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Marko Naumanen
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Urhixidur wrote:
vizikahn wrote:
French rulebook on Asyncron website says "À la fin de sa Phase Militaire", and the example in French is also the same.

The French rulebook seems to be different from English rulebook on this.


Not true for the copy I fetched on July 5th (which, judging by its URL, has been there since January 2016).


I'm talking about the rules for converting control markers, 4.3.3 on page 9. Not the rules for Zeus statue.
http://www.asyncron.fr/classic/gamme-epopee/mare-nostrum/mar...
 
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Emils E
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farmergiles wrote:
I've noticed a rules conflict between Academy Games's rules video (very good by the way) and the rulebook with regards to converting a province that you've just conquered.

The video explains that if the conqueror has control still at the end of his future Move/Battle phase, he converts the province. This makes sense and I'm cool with it.

The rulebook instead says it's at the "BEGINNING" of the conqueror's move/battle phase. This makes no sense as there's no way you could take the province back during the trade/resources/build phases.

Presumably the video is correct, not the rulebook, but I just want to point that out to players as that's a very MAJOR rule to play wrong.


Beginning or End is of small consequence. As someone mentioned only impact is on wether you get to move that legion.
In either case the Legion must be there when you begin you activation, which means that taking back a province (bolded part in your quote) is not possible. Once start converting it you must be able to hold it until your next move.
 
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Andy Pelton
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hybry wrote:
farmergiles wrote:
I've noticed a rules conflict between Academy Games's rules video (very good by the way) and the rulebook with regards to converting a province that you've just conquered.

The video explains that if the conqueror has control still at the end of his future Move/Battle phase, he converts the province. This makes sense and I'm cool with it.

The rulebook instead says it's at the "BEGINNING" of the conqueror's move/battle phase. This makes no sense as there's no way you could take the province back during the trade/resources/build phases.

Presumably the video is correct, not the rulebook, but I just want to point that out to players as that's a very MAJOR rule to play wrong.


Beginning or End is of small consequence. As someone mentioned only impact is on wether you get to move that legion.
In either case the Legion must be there when you begin you activation, which means that taking back a province (bolded part in your quote) is not possible. Once start converting it you must be able to hold it until your next move.


This was the exact message Asyncron replied with

Asyncron wrote:
At the end of your military phase (when you can choose again the occupying a control marker option).


The fact that it says when you can choose again the occupying a control marker option

Says to me that the Legion cannot move, as the legion must have ended it's move in an enemy controlled region to make that choice.

 
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Daniel U. Thibault
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Ah yes, indeed, conversion happens at the beginning of the conqueror's move & battle phase in English but at the end in French.
 
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