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Rococo» Forums » Rules

Subject: Level 6 scoring card "lace/yarn": is there a limit? Should there be? rss

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CJ Calogero
United Kingdom
Walthamstow
Greater London
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Hi there, yesterday a player managed to score 18 points (and win) using that card, which seems overpowered.
Considering that the "employee deck" bonus card gives you a maximum of 11 points, shouldn't there be a maximum scoring for this card, maybe 12 points?
Come to think of it, should all bonus cards have a max of 12?
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Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
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I don't think this card is overpowered. Differently from the "employee deck" card, it requires you to buy and stock stuff that you might use to make dresses.
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Stefan Malz
Germany
Vechelde
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This card is not overpowered, nor should there be any limit. A result of 18 VP is not that much, by the way. In our playtests, we had a few cases where a player gained even more points from that cards (up to 42 VP in one case) and did not win.

As Gláucio said, the main difference from other cards is that you have to specifically collect yarn and lace. Usually, you cannot start to collect those before you actually hired that card, and since the earliest possible moment to do so is in the first action of the sixth round, you have at most 5 more actions to do so.

In order to get significantly more that 15 or 18 VP, you would have to start collecting much earlier, giving the other players a reason to hire that employee before you - resulting in a huge, useless stack of resources in front of you.

Best regards
Stefan Malz

www.malz-spiele.de
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CJ Calogero
United Kingdom
Walthamstow
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Dear Mr Malz, thank you for your reply, it's an honour to meet you.

I'm sorry but a bonus card that allows a player to gain 42 (!) VPs in this game seems very unbalanced to me, compared to the other bonus cards: even if you made all the dresses in the master spots, you could only get a maximum of 21 VPs with the "master dress" bonus card, and you would have to make 12 coats and 12 dresses during the game to get 42 VPs with the "pair" bonus card, which is clearly impossible.

Moreover, the only way to stop a player going for the lace/yarn strategy from the start would be to make sure you get to the bonus card before s/he does, leading to an "arms race" for the Queen's favour card and the materials tokens throughout the game, which frankly would be a very boring way to play, especially now that the new and exciting Jewellery expansion is out!

Again, I mean no disrespect to your card design, this is just how I feel.
 
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Stefan Malz
Germany
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CJCalogero wrote:
I'm sorry but a bonus card that allows a player to gain 42 (!) VPs in this game seems very unbalanced to me, compared to the other bonus cards:

If you only compare the maximum number of VPs to be directly gained by the card, this may seem so. But you have to consider the circumstances:

In that game, the player had a total score of 72 VPs. The winner had 78 VPs, the runner-up 76 VPs, forth place 69 VPs. For getting 42 VPs from the card, he collected 14 sets of lace and yarn and invested 17(!) actions in buying lace and yarn alone, plus 1 action to hire that card. Think about what you could do with those 18 actions otherwise! That player had a total of only 3 dresses on the plan and 2 decorations.

If the "master dress" bonus card would give you 21 VPs (for occupying 14 of the 15 master spaces), you would also have 14 dresses that will bring you at least 28 more VPs, plus very probably the first rank in two or three halls and second rank in the others, giving you at least 15 more VPs. That's a total of 64 VPs...

BTW, in all playtests recorded (almost 100), the player having the "lace + yarn" card only won in 3 cases, in none of which they had more than 12 VPs from that card.

Best regards
Stefan Malz

www.malz-spiele.de
 
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mark van der werf
Netherlands
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Yeah the card is too weak rather than too strong. The fact it can be denied so easily and the payout of the lace and yarn isn't much better than just using those resources to make dresses instead makes it fairly poor.

 
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M Lesus
United States
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Maybe you could test it out and try using this strategy yourself to see how effective it is? Even if your opponent doesn't contest you for the card at all, I bet you would find that stockpiling lace and thread throughout the game would severely limit the number of other things you could accomplish.
 
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Dirk Rieberghs
Belgium
Turnhout
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mlesus wrote:
Maybe you could test it out and try using this strategy yourself to see how effective it is? Even if your opponent doesn't contest you for the card at all, I bet you would find that stockpiling lace and thread throughout the game would severely limit the number of other things you could accomplish.

That's going to be a very very boring game imo !!!
Why just collect stuff instead of making beautiful dresses of it ??
I can't imagine I wanna play like that even if it could bring me victory !!
All the fun of playing Rococo is going right down the drain cry
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Gretchen Fontenay
United States
Apison
TN
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dirkske wrote:
mlesus wrote:
Maybe you could test it out and try using this strategy yourself to see how effective it is? Even if your opponent doesn't contest you for the card at all, I bet you would find that stockpiling lace and thread throughout the game would severely limit the number of other things you could accomplish.

That's going to be a very very boring game imo !!!
Why just collect stuff instead of making beautiful dresses of it ??
I can't imagine I wanna play like that even if it could bring me victory !!
All the fun of playing Rococo is going right down the drain cry


No, it isn't. You don't have to play that strategy!
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