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Runebound (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Why do people want dice? rss

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Christopher James
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Let me get this straight...you want to go back to a game with random hit rolls and dice modifying vs really cool unique items that you actually get to use strategically in combat??
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The Rake
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I don't believe the majority of people that want dice are saying they want the combat style to be reverted to back to something more in common with older styled dice combat mechanics. They simply do not like throwing tokens, chits, or whatever you want to call them. Dice feel more natural and people enjoy tossing them. Tokens tend to do strange things like stick to sweaty hands, wear out faster than dice or in this case roll off of the table (whoever thought they should be round was ).

I'd love to see combat system unchanged but with dice that had one symbol on three sides and the other symbol on the remaining three sides but that would be a ton of dice and very costly. I'd even like something like poker chips that had a bit of weight to them over the current tokens but I'm not that put off by how things currently are.
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Scott Cantor
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tierdal wrote:
Let me get this straight...you want to go back to a game with random hit rolls and dice modifying vs really cool unique items that you actually get to use strategically in combat??


I'll leave aside that I don't think there's much strategy to the use of the tokens or items, and grant that point.

Aside from solo play, which I think is not as good, I'm fine with the system as it is and would not change it, as that's the core of this edition of the game.

I hate the tokens and I hate flipping, tossing, and randomizing them. I am not going to suddenly start liking any of that. I'd rather play with homemade artwork marked up on blank dice than flip the tokens. That should say it all, really. I don't know why that's so absurd to certain people, but I guess they have their reasons.

One reason why I would opt for the dice is for solo play. I hate the tokens in general, but it's having to flip both sets where the annoyance really starts to mount. It's just not fun.

But to be fair, this game does not advertise itself for solo play, and it shouldn't.
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Christopher James
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trakes wrote:
I don't believe the majority of people that want dice are saying they want the combat style to be reverted to back to something more in common with older styled dice combat mechanics. They simply do not like throwing tokens, chits, or whatever you want to call them. Dice feel more natural and people enjoy tossing them. Tokens tend to do strange things like stick to sweaty hands, wear out faster than dice or in this case roll off of the table (whoever thought they should be round was ).

I'd love to see combat system unchanged but with dice that had one symbol on three sides and the other symbol on the remaining three sides but that would be a ton of dice and very costly. I'd even like something like poker chips that had a bit of weight to them over the current tokens but I'm not that put off by how things currently are.


Dice cup, game should have shipped with them =(
 
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Yours Truly,
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Raleigh
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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As has been mentioned in other threads, casting runes like in StarDust would have been cool:



Obviously that's from a movie, but something a little heavier than cardboard for casting - like wood, metal or even plastic. It's just the idea of tossing/casting/flipping a light cardboard token that is a turn-off for some - not the basic mechanistic idea they developed for the combat.
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Carlos Alves
Portugal
Setubal
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Like the shamans tosses the bones to read the fortune...

I don't mind the current system, but instead of using the cardboard tokens, i would like better plastic coin tokens to tossing.
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Christos Tzeremes
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FLUSHING
New York
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Dice are

Faster
More robust
clearer
less fiddly
easier to cast
just more fun

My biggest problem with third ed is NOT so much the lack of dice but how similar every enemy feels since you are using the same tokens for each of them. I realize they each have one or two abilities but in my experience it never mattered too much.

2nd edition was fun because of the variance I felt from each enemy. Not only in their ability to up the numbers but in their ability to change the way you approach combat. Some enemy preventing you from starting with your best attack? looking to take 3 damage as a result? dang. Also going from green to yellow to blue encounters felt like a huge step up. It was fun to see that progression. Third ed just loses out on that.

I think dice make it easier to add that kind of progression to the game. If they tried that with tokens you would be hunting tokens half the game. Maybe they should have done colored dice that you could grab at a moments notice. Then each enemy could have their own unique-ish set that could get more difficult.


In 3rd edition the choices I made in combat just rarely felt exciting and actually worth the extra process time. By the end of the game we were honestly just super tired of flipping tokens. Eventually we just started coming up with stupid ways of tossing them to make it more fun.

If 3rd ed added stepped enemies and dice-tokens I might bite again but really I loved just how fast the dice combat was.

No disrespect to anybody who likes 3rd edition. This is just my issue and reason for wanting either the dice back or a complete reset to the way the tokens work. I know that won't happen so I'll just stick with 2nd ed.
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Brian Luckus
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
As has been mentioned in other threads, casting runes like in StarDust would have been cool:



Obviously that's from a movie, but something a little heavier than cardboard for casting - like wood, metal or even plastic. It's just the idea of tossing/casting/flipping a light cardboard token that is a turn-off for some - not the basic mechanistic idea they developed for the combat.


Ahhh Stardust. The scene where Septimus challenged the seer. An awesome scene.
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Shepherdsville
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Xristot wrote:
Dice are
Faster
More robust
clearer
less fiddly
easier to cast
just more fun


Faster isn't better
HUH?
Nope
Nope
Nope
Definitely not
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JD Snider
Canada
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I love the tokens myself. I expected they were going to be nothing but a gimmick at first, but I tried to keep an open mind and have ended up really liking what they bring to the game. And it's not like you don't get to do ANY dice rolling in this game - there are still those terrain dice after all
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Everett
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Presque Isle
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I love the tokens as well.
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Brian Luckus
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Some like tokens more, others don't. To each their own. No one is more correct over the other.
 
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Christopher
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Everyone I've ever met that's hated the tokens is a Runebound 2e fan, for what that's worth.
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Drew
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Chalfont
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SpoDaddy wrote:
Everyone I've ever met that's hated the tokens is a Runebound 2e fan, for what that's worth.


If you look at the life of Runebound 1e/2e, it seemed to have a very early surge of popularity/sales, given the amount of product released during the first two years for 2e. If you go back and read the forums during that time you see many of the complaints that continued to haunt Runebound 2ed for its entire life, such as too long, no real choices, no player interaction. FFG tried to address some of these concerns with the expansions by trying to force more player combat and ways to impact other players turns. It doesn't really seem to have helped much with the critics of the game.

The people who stayed with Runebound 2e were mainly solo gamers and those with a more roleplaying bent playing with only 2 to 3 people of similar mindset. The expansions which focused more on quests and story were more popular while the expansions which focused on PvP were ignored (banners, class decks, the one you play king of the mountain at the end, etc). You can read the forums and see the many posts about playing solo or RPG variants.

The game that wanted to be a PvP race game didn't work but found a lot of life as a solo/RPG experience. Runebound 3 seems to go after those who bailed on the 2nd, considering the tons of posts from Runebound 3 fans stating how they really didn't like 2 but now loved 3. The new edition just doesn't really offer me and other solo fans I know what we wanted. The pogs/chits/tokens is an example of that. Rolling dice is just part of the RPG experience and the previous combat system provided a simple way of feeling that you gained power from leveling.

Dice rolling just worked well soloing a game we wanted to be a RPG. Tossing pogs just doesn't feel right. I can make any game solo if I want but if I have to choose between the two for a solo RPG experience I will take the 2nd over the 3rd. There are also tons of great solo/co-op games now that do not require us solo gamers to play both sides in a competitive game, even if it is trivial to do so.

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Christopher
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If I want to play a game like this solo I'm going for Mage Knight.
 
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Sebastian Beck
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The token system is awesome and so much better than the d10 system of 2nd edition.

The whole combat system feels so fresh and innovative. It is very involved, but you have so many great choices to make: Boost your damage, flip your tokens, recast tokens of the enemy, exert to boost your powers....fantastic.
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Rafal Areinu
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SpoDaddy wrote:
Everyone I've ever met that's hated the tokens is a Runebound 2e fan, for what that's worth.


I'm long time 2e fan and I love tokens.

In my opinion fighting monsters in 2E got really the samey. I could got trough battles in seconds at some point. Roll, check, roll, check, roll, check, I win. Also at some point people would get so strong they would win most battles automatically without need to roll. Not too mention final bosses were often faced with much overpowered heroes.

clip611 wrote:
The expansions which focused more on quests and story were more popular while the expansions which focused on PvP were ignored (banners, class decks, the one you play king of the mountain at the end, etc). You can read the forums and see the many posts about playing solo or RPG variants.


PvP variants usually sucked, that's why they were ignored. Also, there were almost none of those... Banners? They were either useless or too powerful(and I don't think they were so PvP focused). Crown of the elder kings? Endgame made no sense. Some cards with PvP elements either were too weak to do anything, or using them was less optimal then just going against normal challenges.

Obviously there were also class decks, which were just too convoluted, expensive and game changing to ever stand a chance. Not only everyone was expected to buy his own deck, deckbuild(wha?), but also it took more effort to keep track of those cards than rest of the game. Which is really unfortunate, since some of those abilities are just awesome. Stuff like summoning challenges or locations, buffing before or during battles etc. was just fun.

====

Anyway, back to topic of dice VS tokens - I'm pretty sure we would have seen much less complaints if tokens were plastic. They would probably cast much better. But I feel like people give too much credit to dice. If they roll so well why were dice towers invented? Rolling dice is problematic, takes a lot of space, they fall down, hit other components, don't roll well on some surfaces and overall they ain't perfect. Are tokens better? Nah. But my dice tower does as good job of randomizing tokens as it does with dice, so I don't care.
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Christopher
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If the tokens were plastic the usual suspects on BGG would be whinging that the game is too expensive and that the stickers on the tokens will come off.
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James Ludlow
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Areinu wrote:
we would have seen much less complaints if __________


Fill in that blank with anything you want. It's not going to be a true statement.
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that Matt
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jdludlow wrote:
Areinu wrote:
we would have seen much less complaints if __________


Fill in that blank with anything you want. It's not going to be a true statement.

we would have seen much less complaints if we had gouged out our eyes with sharpened d4s long ago
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Jesse Rockwell
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*shrug* I like the strategic chess match with the tokens. I've got no problems with them.
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