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Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » Variants

Subject: I really really dislike Rieekan's Start the Evacuation Action card rss

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jooice ZP
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its terrible, especially compared to the other rebel action cards.

The card is just like hidden fleet except that it lets you do it in the assignment phase (which makes it worse then hidden fleet). You already have hidden fleet 3 times in the game, why another?!

Mon Mothma and Dondanna's cards are excellent, i would grade them about a 9-10.
Leia and R2-D2 around a 5-6
C3PO about a 4
and Rieekan's getting a 0 seems too much in this ranking.
All the Empire's cards are around a 3-8, how is this 1 card so bad?

Unless I have completely missed it's use, it either needs to removed from the little 6 card deck it is randomly pulled out of, or slightly modified.

Ideas how this card could be come good:
1. the card would also move units without transport restrictions (not just adjacency) - still rather weak.
2. the card could allow to reinforce the base from another system - this would be a heck of a card then, maybe too strong.
3. The card would allow to move to any system, or any subjugated system, regardless of imperial units.
4. the card would allow to move a fleet on the board to an empty system ignoring adjacency.
5. the card would be played along with moving your base and you could take some units with you to the new base (like in the movie)

Basically the card needs +-2 words to make it usable, and not be a terrible blow when you get you starting hand.

How is drawing C3PO and this card equivalent to drawing the 2 good ones?
I don't get it.
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Derry Salewski
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Hate, hate, hate this card.

You basically get a hidden fleet during set up being able to deploy anywhere.

You don't need another one until at least round three and even then it's not what I'm looking to do. I hate clogging my hand up with hidden fleet and I hate feeling like I'm going to lose the game when I get this terrible rieekan card to start with.

It's too much variance for my taste.

I agree a change would not be the worst, though I dislike houserules.
 
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jooice ZP
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DO you still play with the card or have you removed it from the little starting action deck?
 
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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I just kind of hate hidden fleet to begin with. I get that eventually moving the Rebel base is a crucial part to the rebel strategy, but most games I usually end up with a handful of cards relating to messing around with it, and I can't be proactive on the board.
 
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Doug DeMoss
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Hidden Fleet is how you set up to get those objectives that require you to attack. It's an important tool in the Rebel arsenal, which is why there are three in the deck.
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Private Blinky
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jooice wrote:
its terrible, especially compared to the other rebel action cards.

The card is just like hidden fleet except that it lets you do it in the assignment phase (which makes it worse then hidden fleet). You already have hidden fleet 3 times in the game, why another?!

Mon Mothma and Dondanna's cards are excellent, i would grade them about a 9-10.
Leia and R2-D2 around a 5-6
C3PO about a 4
and Rieekan's getting a 0 seems too much in this ranking.
All the Empire's cards are around a 3-8, how is this 1 card so bad?


Not being too familiar with the Action Cards (I've only used them twice so far) I am a little surprised on the lack of rule-bending that this card provides in others to the mix.

Here are at least the advantages for this card, as slight as the may be:

- This does effectively give the Rebel two actions before the Imperial player performs their first move in a round. It's great if you want to serve up a fleet/ground movement blockade while still attempting another action before the Imperial player moves.

- With Rieekan having one diplomacy and spec ops, that means (once again before the Imperial Player's turn) there could be up to three leaders to help out in any missions done at the start of the round. Build Alliance pairs nicely in this regard since you would gain the +2 dice; you could assign Mothma to pretty much guarantee a lock on the Loyalty attempt or, or use Dodonna on Alliance to still get 4 dice on the attempt and leaving Mothma free to contest Empire mission or tackle another diplomacy mission on the same round.

That's about as strong as it gets, I'm afraid. VERY situational, but there is always a chance that those Hidden Fleets are buried further in the deck and you need to move units from the base for a diversion or objective.

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Brian Leet
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I've played as rebels about 5-6 times and gotten this card three or four of those games! I have yet to put it to any good use. The fact that it is an assignment card makes it even weaker in my mind. You need to move your ships away from the base and lock them to a system before the Imperial player even makes mission assignments. The only real upside versus Hidden Fleet is the resolve instead of a regular mission.

Ways it would be vastly better and I don't think overpowered:

1. Assignment: Search your mission deck for a Hidden Fleet and assign this leader to that mission. Shuffle the deck. Treat this mission as a Resolve when played on this turn.

2. Special: If this leader is in the Rebel Base and Rapid Mobilization has been played, you may move this leader to any system containing no Imperial unites, along with a fleet from the Rebel Base. Adjacency restrictions do not apply.

3. Special: If this leader is in the Rebel Base when it is relocated, you may keep as many ships and troops in the Rebel Base as can be moved or transported. Adjacency and other leaders do not prevent this effect.

4. Special: After succeeding on a mission with this leader in a system containing no Imperial units you may move a fleet from the Rebel Base to this system. Adjacency restrictions do not apply.

Meanwhile, I'm still open to great ideas for how to use him as is. Bluff that I have a better action card for another leader?
 
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jooice ZP
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PghArch wrote:
I've played as rebels about 5-6 times and gotten this card three or four of those games! I have yet to put it to any good use. The fact that it is an assignment card makes it even weaker in my mind. You need to move your ships away from the base and lock them to a system before the Imperial player even makes mission assignments. The only real upside versus Hidden Fleet is the resolve instead of a regular mission.

Ways it would be vastly better and I don't think overpowered:

1. Assignment: Search your mission deck for a Hidden Fleet and assign this leader to that mission. Shuffle the deck. Treat this mission as a Resolve when played on this turn.

2. Special: If this leader is in the Rebel Base and Rapid Mobilization has been played, you may move this leader to any system containing no Imperial unites, along with a fleet from the Rebel Base. Adjacency restrictions do not apply.

3. Special: If this leader is in the Rebel Base when it is relocated, you may keep as many ships and troops in the Rebel Base as can be moved or transported. Adjacency and other leaders do not prevent this effect.

4. Special: After succeeding on a mission with this leader in a system containing no Imperial units you may move a fleet from the Rebel Base to this system. Adjacency restrictions do not apply.

Meanwhile, I'm still open to great ideas for how to use him as is. Bluff that I have a better action card for another leader?


I think I like options 2 and 3. For number 2, I am assuming you mean that the ships in the old rebel base will be moved to the new rebel base.
I think I like that one the most.

Just to point out that hidden fleet is a resolve mission, so this card is no better then hidden fleet (man I dislike them all), only difference is the timing.

A new option could be that Rieekan's card places him inthe rebel base but the fleet is placed somewhere else on the board (without the leader) this would allow the rebels to actually use this otherwise sitting duck.
This is also what hidden fleet should be!
(I kind of fell in love with the above number 2 option.)
 
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Mike Barry
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While I agree that Rieekans card is definitely the worst of the bunch, the rebel cards on the whole are extremely powerful in comparison to what the Imperials have access to, specifically when it comes to starting action cards.

If we put things on a spectrum, Tarkins card would not be far off this one. (Replicating a logistics card effect in the assignment phase)

Tagge and Palpatines cards are both okay considering if the Imperials are making a move they are generally going to win anyways, they're both more of a win more type deal.

Vaders is clearly excellent.

Other than Vaders card though the Rebel cards are all arguably stronger. Non opposable Public Uprising and Incite Rebellions with C3PO.
R2-D2 makes opposing anything Leia does offensively a nightmare.
Mothmas card is a "I have a mon cal fleet" turn 1 card.
Leias is amazing, pulling any card whenever you need it. I think its the best one by far in my opinion.
Jans objective card is strong as well.

Best case scenario for the Imperials is Vader + Tagge or Palpatine.

Worst case scenario is rieekan + any of the above which seems only slightly weaker most the time.

Does it feel bad when you draw it? Sure. It also feels bad for the Imperials when they draw Interrogation.
 
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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demoss1 wrote:
Hidden Fleet is how you set up to get those objectives that require you to attack. It's an important tool in the Rebel arsenal, which is why there are three in the deck.

I guess, I could see it being good for that. I've just never used it as such for my fleets.
 
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Frank Pelkofer
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Subtrendy Gaming wrote:
demoss1 wrote:
Hidden Fleet is how you set up to get those objectives that require you to attack. It's an important tool in the Rebel arsenal, which is why there are three in the deck.

I guess, I could see it being good for that. I've just never used it as such for my fleets.


The fact that the fleet shows up pinned seems to put a big damper on those plans. "I'll get you! Just stay right there!"
 
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Doug DeMoss
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That's why you usually do it as your last play of the turn.
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jooice ZP
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demoss1 wrote:
That's why you usually do it as your last play of the turn.


But the action card happens during the assignment phase, way before, even before the empire has to make assignments himself.
 
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James Cheng
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jooice wrote:
demoss1 wrote:
That's why you usually do it as your last play of the turn.


But the action card happens during the assignment phase, way before, even before the empire has to make assignments himself.


I think Doug is talking about Hidden Fleet.
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Brad Restivo
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What if you just simply add "This leader does not prevent movement from the system this turn," like the card of that one obscure Imperial leader who makes three stormtroopers spawn.
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Brian Leet
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geniuslegume wrote:
What if you just simply add "This leader does not prevent movement from the system this turn," like the card of that one obscure Imperial leader who makes three stormtroopers spawn.


Since the Rebels go first, that makes it even better than Prepare the Assault. I like it conceptually, but I think it takes a weak card and may make it too powerful!

My option 2 above was intended to allow you to use Riekkan to be the leader you use to do Rapid Mobilization and then immediately use this power to move some of the units out of the Rebel Base (i.e. before the end of phase relocation of the base occurs). So you could use him to avoid stranding the old base defenders - but not really to defend the new base with them most likely.

Option 3 was to allow you to move the ships and defenders with the base when it goes to a new location. Thematically, I really like this. In play I suspect it might be too powerful.

In practice, I'll likely just keep playing him as written and secretly moan when this action card is one of my starting draws.
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jooice ZP
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PghArch wrote:
geniuslegume wrote:
What if you just simply add "This leader does not prevent movement from the system this turn," like the card of that one obscure Imperial leader who makes three stormtroopers spawn.


Since the Rebels go first, that makes it even better than Prepare the Assault. I like it conceptually, but I think it takes a weak card and may make it too powerful!

My option 2 above was intended to allow you to use Riekkan to be the leader you use to do Rapid Mobilization and then immediately use this power to move some of the units out of the Rebel Base (i.e. before the end of phase relocation of the base occurs). So you could use him to avoid stranding the old base defenders - but not really to defend the new base with them most likely.

Option 3 was to allow you to move the ships and defenders with the base when it goes to a new location. Thematically, I really like this. In play I suspect it might be too powerful.

In practice, I'll likely just keep playing him as written and secretly moan when this action card is one of my starting draws.


Option 2 the units go to the New Rebel base space, option 3 is any non imperial system?


I think I like option 2 the most, its also exactly what he does in the movie, is it too powerful...maybe.
I also like the move units and not be limited from moving them again.
This is probably the weakest of the options, but at least it seem valuable.
Remember that this would happen before the Empire has to set up their turn, so they have a chance to react, or at least have the right leaders to protect whatever target the Rebels are gunning for.
 
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Mike Barry
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I mean it could also just be:

Special -

When Rieekan uses Rapid Mobilization you may select both options, resolving the base option first and the unit recovery second.

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jooice ZP
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Right.
But is that too powerful?

You can technically do this in the game with Lando's card in a turn in which you spend 1 or 2 leaders on Rapid Mobilization + Lando or another leader with a white symbol on the contingency plan that replicates RM.

This modified card would be a little weaker then this combo (although it saves at least 1 leader) since the combo lets you move any moveable fleet on the board.
Ofcourse leaders in the fleet's systems could block the movements.
 
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Steve Hope
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I do think this card is pretty terrible, but as some have pointed out it's not that much more terrible than several other action cards. I think you can use it in some ways though:

1. OK, it's a slightly-worse Hidden Fleet. Which means if you didn't get Hidden Fleet you can still use it, sort of. And if you DID but like it better than Hidden Fleet (possible reasons below) you can discard Hidden Fleet if necessary to meet your hand size limit but still retain the functionality.

2. There are certainly times you want an extra leader in play during the assignment phase. Turn 1 Mon Mothma going to Utapau? Why not place a big fleet somewhere else and bring Rieekan to Utapau with some guys to get three extra dice on the diplomacy attempt. Later on, he can at least put up a fight against Boba Fett with the same strategy.

3. If he goes to a place you're confident the Empire will attack, it's extra troops in a way that Hidden Fleet wouldn't necessarily be as useful. What if you have a captured leader and want to try and rescue them before they get carbonized/lured, but also have sufficient troops in the Rebel Base that if you send some to Nal Hutta (sp?) you might save it from subjugation? Now you don't have to make that difficult choice in the first action.

Not to say any of these things make it a good card. I think MM's card is by far the best of the starting Rebel actions, and I like all of the others pretty well except this one. But I agree with the poster who said that the starting Imperial actions (except for Vader) are pretty blah. It all comes out in the wash--some games things break badly for you, some they all line up perfectly.
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Jason Sherlock
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stephenhope wrote:

2. There are certainly times you want an extra leader in play during the assignment phase. Turn 1 Mon Mothma going to Utapau? Why not place a big fleet somewhere else and bring Rieekan to Utapau with some guys to get three extra dice on the diplomacy attempt.


That is what I use it for. It basically, allows me to have rebel units at two starting locations instead of one, (usually just a fighter and maybe a transport with some ground troops at Mon Mothma's target space). Mon Mothma gets her extra dice at a good neutral world that might otherwise get contested by an Imperial leader. She can even operate right next to Imperial fleets, with less fear of capture (Rieekan giving a spec icon).
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Henry Coleman
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demoss1 wrote:
Hidden Fleet is how you set up to get those objectives that require you to attack. It's an important tool in the Rebel arsenal, which is why there are three in the deck.


In 10+ games neither my opponent or I have ever used hidden fleet or Rieekan's cards. There are so many other cards that do a better job of surprise attacking the imperials for VP's that it never seems optimal to play it.
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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If you're assigning someone to Rapid Mobilization almost every turn anyway (so as not to tip off that the Imperials are close to the Rebel base when you're actually using it to move), you're free at the end of the turn to move quite a sizeable fleet to the Rebel Base space.

This might seem a bad move since it makes you vulnerable to Intel... unless your first move is to bring them back to the board somewhere else, using Hidden Fleet or Rieekan's action.

If you're lucky, the imperials will take the bait and waste a leader on a 1-card Intel. Even if you're not, you'll have a sizeable fleet somewhere useful where systems aren't too defended, maybe close to Coruscant. A diplomacy attempt there will also get +3 dice (One from Rieekan and 2 from the troops).

Admittedly, your fleet will have to wait there a full turn, so try to do this on a turn where there aren't many units on the first space of the production track, or combine it with a sabotage to prepare your attack next turn.
 
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jooice ZP
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Dystopian wrote:
If you're assigning someone to Rapid Mobilization almost every turn anyway (so as not to tip off that the Imperials are close to the Rebel base when you're actually using it to move), you're free at the end of the turn to move quite a sizeable fleet to the Rebel base

You cant move it out and back in with rapid mobilization, because of the leader, I assume you mean the turn after.

Hidden fleet for me has been a waste as well, I wish it was place the leader in base , and move the units out (free to be activated later)

But that will probably be OP, or at least break the balance
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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jooice wrote:
You cant move it out and back in with rapid mobilization, because of the leader, I assume you mean the turn after.


Rapid Mobilization always happens at the end of the turn, after everything else. I was indeed assuming you played it on the previous turn, and didn't feel the need to move your base, so you get to use the alternate action.

Mind you, I've been stuck with useless Hidden Fleet cards in my hand too, and don't find the card strong by any means; I was just pointing non-obvious uses the card can have when planning ahead.

Hidden Fleet is actually more useful for defense than offense; it allows you to save your Mon Cal cruisers from getting attacked by a stronger force with Rapid Mobilization, while avoiding the drawbacks of Gather Intel.

Lure the empire's main force on one side of the map, hop in at the end of the turn, hop out on the other side of the galaxy as your first action, play for time, and let them waste actions. You can bring them back to your base when the time comes.
 
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