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Mare Nostrum: Empires» Forums » Rules

Subject: Various Questions after two plays.... .. . rss

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Day Life
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Hi there... we had 2 games this weekend and really enjoyed the game, but have some questions I would like to get confirmed, denied or answered.

1) - When you invade an enemy province you can place your units
on the buildings to gain their effect in the next resourcing
phase. Dose this also immediately affect the 3 tracks? As in
you go up and they go down?

2) - Dose Moses's ability that stops you taking over a province
(as in placing your flag) also stop card effects and hero
powers that place flags?

We also had a strange situation....

Perseus:
Build: You may overrule culture leader’s order so
you may build pyramids or 5th hero to win the game.

Now as soon as you gain a hero the effect becomes active but when two players buy their 5th hero and neither of the players is the leader of the orange building track, the manual says it would be a "draw". This happened to us but one of the heroes brought was Perseus.

The question form the player was is the "to win the game" part of the Perseus text part of the effect. As in dose he also break ties? Or, dose his ability simply allow you to build first, and usually that is a instant win, but in this case it would move to the check the track and then possibly a draw?

We rules that the draw still happened, but I wanted to see what you lot think.
 
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Erik Stratton
United States
Appleton
Wisconsin
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DayinDaLife wrote:
Hi there... we had 2 games this weekend and really enjoyed the game, but have some questions I would like to get confirmed, denied or answered.

1) - When you invade an enemy province you can place your units
on the buildings to gain their effect in the next resourcing
phase. Dose this also immediately affect the 3 tracks? As in
you go up and they go down?



Absolutely! This is one of the ways to forestall someone else winning with all 3 Leaders...or one way to win with all 3 Leaders.


[/q]
We also had a strange situation....

Perseus:
Build: You may overrule culture leader’s order so
you may build pyramids or 5th hero to win the game.

Now as soon as you gain a hero the effect becomes active but when two players buy their 5th hero and neither of the players is the leader of the orange building track, the manual says it would be a "draw". This happened to us but one of the heroes brought was Perseus.

The question form the player was is the "to win the game" part of the Perseus text part of the effect. As in dose he also break ties? Or, dose his ability simply allow you to build first, and usually that is a instant win, but in this case it would move to the check the track and then possibly a draw?

We rules that the draw still happened, but I wanted to see what you lot think.
[/q]

Perseus allows you to ignore the Culture Leader and buy first. Since his ability was not available until being bought, it does not affect the player's win/tie.

However, see the discussion of the French version of the rules (elsewhere in this thread) to discover more about ties and how the game ends.
 
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George
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Pennsylvania
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DayinDaLife wrote:

2) - Dose Moses's ability that stops you taking over a province
(as in placing your flag) also stop card effects and hero
powers that place flags?


What card effects and powers would possibly pillage or convert? I did a quick search but didn't see any.

Here is Moses's power for everyone's reference:
Quote:
Protects the player’s Provinces from Pillage (4.3.1) and
Conversion (4.3.3). An opponent may still occupy Buildings
(4.3.2).
 
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Day Life
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soosy wrote:
DayinDaLife wrote:

2) - Dose Moses's ability that stops you taking over a province
(as in placing your flag) also stop card effects and hero
powers that place flags?


What card effects and powers would possibly pillage or convert? I did a quick search but didn't see any.

Here is Moses's power for everyone's reference:
Quote:
Protects the player’s Provinces from Pillage (4.3.1) and
Conversion (4.3.3). An opponent may still occupy Buildings
(4.3.2).


There is a Hero Power where you can sac a unit to instantly gain permanent control of the location and there is a card where you just gain control instantly.

Queen of Sheba
Battle: 1x/round, may immediately convert opponents
control marker to yours by sacrificing your occupying legion

Ancient Library of Alexandria
Battle Phase: Convert a Provincial Control on the
first round you occupy an opponents control marker.

Erik_the_Red wrote:
see the discussion of the French version of the rules (elsewhere in this thread) to discover more about ties and how the game ends.


Do you have a link?
 
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George
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Pennsylvania
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DayinDaLife wrote:
There is a Hero Power where you can sac a unit to instantly gain permanent control of the location and there is a card where you just gain control instantly.

Queen of Sheba
Battle: 1x/round, may immediately convert opponents
control marker to yours by sacrificing your occupying legion

Ancient Library of Alexandria
Battle Phase: Convert a Provincial Control on the
first round you occupy an opponents control marker.


Since those both say "convert", I would say Moses does protect since Moses protects from "conversion". Just my interpretation as I don't think Moses has been discussed here.


DayinDaLife wrote:
Erik_the_Red wrote:
see the discussion of the French version of the rules (elsewhere in this thread) to discover more about ties and how the game ends.

Do you have a link?


Scattered in these threads unfortunately:
Re: First Two Games
Re: Mare Nostrum Empires Core Game and Atlas Expansion FAQ
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Day Life
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soosy wrote:
soosy wrote:
Here is Moses's power for everyone's reference:
Quote:
Protects the player’s Provinces from Pillage (4.3.1) and
Conversion (4.3.3). An opponent may still occupy Buildings
(4.3.2).
DayinDaLife wrote:
Queen of Sheba
Battle: 1x/round, may immediately convert opponents
control marker to yours by sacrificing your occupying legion

Ancient Library of Alexandria
Battle Phase: Convert a Provincial Control on the
first round you occupy an opponents control marker.


Since those both say "convert", I would say Moses does protect since Moses protects from "conversion". Just my interpretation as I don't think Moses has been discussed here.


This is the conclusion we came to as well.

I mean it is to early to throw around words like "unbalanced" or "OP" or w/e, I can not stand gamers that play one or even 5 games and start throwing those words about... and in truth many of the hero powers are very strong, but this seams to be a extremely good one. It really changes how the game works as you can never loose control of a hex.

Erik_the_Red wrote:
DayinDaLife wrote:
Perseus:
Build: You may overrule culture leader’s order so
you may build pyramids or 5th hero to win the game.


*Emphases is mine (Jynks)*
Perseus allows you to ignore the Culture Leader and buy first. Since his ability was not available until being bought, it does not affect the player's win/tie


Yeah, that is also how we looked at it. We played that his ability is just allowing him to "go first" regardless of who controls the orange track. Then the normal "build 2 win" rules are in effect. All he dose is allow you to go first as if you were ontop of the orange track and chose yourself.

We also think that his effect is a passive effect(always on) but it triggers at the start of the build phase (before 1st builder is chosen by orange tack leader) so the ability's trigger window for that turn you actually buy him has passed as it is "after" the orange track leader has chosen the 1st builder.

So basically he comes in tapped until the start of the next turn after you buy him.

The question was really about if he "breaks ties" in a different way to that in the default rules, due to the "win the game" part of the text.

As in dose his passive effect means that IF you build, YOU instantly win. Regardless of the "tie" rules. If this was the case then even though the build window was closed, the passive "you win" part would still be active in the same turn you bought him.

 
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Nathanaël Dufour
France
Lille
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DayinDaLife wrote:


The question was really about if he "breaks ties" in a different way to that in the default rules, due to the "win the game" part of the text.

As in dose his passive effect means that IF you build, YOU instantly win. Regardless of the "tie" rules. If this was the case then even though the build window was closed, the passive "you win" part would still be active in the same turn you bought him.



As I understand it (in French), Perseus ONLY power is to go first IF YOU CAN WIN.

So you buy it as your penultimate hero because you know it will be a tie next turn; and go first to win.

But you cannot use it to play first midway through the game.
 
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Daniel U. Thibault
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Québec
Québec
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Osuniev wrote:
DayinDaLife wrote:


The question was really about if he "breaks ties" in a different way to that in the default rules, due to the "win the game" part of the text.

As in dose his passive effect means that IF you build, YOU instantly win. Regardless of the "tie" rules. If this was the case then even though the build window was closed, the passive "you win" part would still be active in the same turn you bought him.



As I understand it (in French), Perseus ONLY power is to go first IF YOU CAN WIN.

So you buy it as your penultimate hero because you know it will be a tie next turn; and go first to win.

But you cannot use it to play first midway through the game.


Persée : Vous pouvez jouer en premier lors de la phase Achats pour construire votre cinquième HM ou Les Pyramides et être l'unique vainqueur!

(Emphasis in original)

Translation:
Perseus : You can play first in the Purchase phase to build your fifth HM or The Pyramids and be the sole winner!

But do recall that the victory conditions are slightly different in French. A recap:

During Phase III, Purchases:
* If you are the Political Leader and you build your fifth HM or The Pyramids, you win immediately.
* Otherwise, if a single player is the only one who can build his fifth HM or The Pyramids, he wins immediately.
* Otherwise, all the players who can build The Pyramids win simultaneously.
* Otherwise, all the players who can build their fifth HM win simultaneously.

During Phase IV, Move & Battle:
* You win if you control a total of 4 Capitals and Legendary Cities at the end of the phase. Very rarely, this will be a joint win if another player fulfills the same conditions simultaneously.

During Phase V, Leadership:
* You win if you have all three leader titles at the end of this phase.

So Perseus, if bought in a previous turn, allows you to out-leader the political leader to build a fifth HM or The Pyramids and win.
 
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