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Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » Rules

Subject: Nexu pounce question rss

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David Harrison
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I know this has been asked before, but I've never found any convincing argument that quotes the actual rules. Here's the issue:

Nexu's ability 'pounce' states (IIRC) that you place the nexu 3 spaces away. Placement is of course not movement, so you can ignore things like figures, impassable terrain, etc. when counting out the spaces. Also, when placing a large figure in a space, you can orient it however you want as long as at least part of it is in the target space (and it's a legal placement of course).

So far, so good. The issue I have is what people define as 3 spaces away. Most answers I've seen say "this isn't normal movement, so the large figures movement restriction doesn't apply here." However, in the Rules Reference Guide on page 9 it clearly states: "Many effects require players to measure the distance between two spaces. To determine this number, the player counts the number of movement points it would take for a figure to move from one space to the other."

To me then, the correct implementation of pounce is:

1. Choose any space of the nexu as the starting point.

2. Count 3 spaces away, but using the nexu's normal orthogonal only movement restrictions and ignoring all extra terrain costs. The end space must be a legal placement target.

3. The nexu can be oriented in whatever way as long as it sits in the target space.

I'm wondering if there's some rule I'm overlooking, or if the common response to this question is in fact incorrect.
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Craig S.
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One of your earlier statements is incorrect. You cannot orient a large figure however you want when placing it. You are not allowed to rotate it. That being said, it does not matter where a Nexu is concerned, because the base is square and facing is not a thing in IA.

On to your question: there is no orthogonal-only restriction when counting spaces. You pick any space the Nexu occupies, count three spaces from there following the rules for counting spaces, and place the Nexu so that some part of it occupies that square. That's it.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The easiest counter to this is to consider counting spaces to determine accuracy during an attack. When a large figure is attacking, would you count the spaces orthogonally?

I'm fairly sure everybody would agree that you should not.

Thus, you count spaces as if a generic figure were moving between the spaces you count out, not the figure that is performing the ability. This fits the rule you highlighted too. It's 'a figure' not 'this figure' or 'you'.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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csouth154 wrote:
One of your earlier statements is incorrect. You cannot orient a large figure however you want when placing it. You are not allowed to rotate it. That being said, it does not matter where a Nexu is concerned, because the base is square and facing is not a thing in IA.

Actually, David was correct. You can reorient when placing a figure, you just can't reorient while pushing the figure or moving it by spaces.

RRG - Large Figures wrote:
• If an effect places a large figure in a space, the player resolving
the effect chooses the figure’s orientation. It can be placed in
any legal spaces as long as part of the figure’s base is in the
space instructed.
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Craig S.
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Clipper wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
One of your earlier statements is incorrect. You cannot orient a large figure however you want when placing it. You are not allowed to rotate it. That being said, it does not matter where a Nexu is concerned, because the base is square and facing is not a thing in IA.

Actually, David was correct. You can reorient when placing a figure, you just can't reorient while pushing the figure or moving it by spaces.

RRG - Large Figures wrote:
• If an effect places a large figure in a space, the player resolving
the effect chooses the figure’s orientation. It can be placed in
any legal spaces as long as part of the figure’s base is in the
space instructed.


Oh...yeah, I got it confused with the pushing rule. Fixing...
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David Harrison
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Clipper wrote:
The easiest counter to this is to consider counting spaces to determine accuracy during an attack. When a large figure is attacking, would you count the spaces orthogonally?

I'm fairly sure everybody would agree that you should not.

Thus, you count spaces as if a generic figure were moving between the spaces you count out, not the figure that is performing the ability. This fits the rule you highlighted too. It's 'a figure' not 'this figure' or 'you'.


That makes sense. Rereading the rules again the phrase "it would take for a figure" now sticks out to me more, implying as you said it means a generic figure. I think I saw the bolded "from the figure using the ability" text below that and got the two ideas conflated in my mind. Also, using pounce with diagonal movement can lead to some very strange (i.e. unrealistic) pounces across walls, although I suppose it could be justified by imagining it as multiple jumps.

Sort of a similar rules question regarding large figure movement: how does moving through things work? Let's pretend a nexu didn't have mobility. I know for example moving into 2 hostile figures only costs 1 extra movement point; what if it moved into a hostile figure and difficult terrain? That would be two extra movement points, which is also the maximum penalty for movement?

When is a large figure considered to "enter" difficult terrain? If the figure straddles the difficult terrain line is it considered to be entering difficult terrain each time it moves?

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Craig S.
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A large figure only pays extra move costs for the most difficult space it enters per move point spent. pays any applicable move point cost only once per move point spent. If it moves one space and ends up entirely occupying difficult terrain, it still only spends 2 move points. If it enters one or more squares of difficult terrain containing hostile figures, it spends 3 move points, and cannot legally end movement there unless it is massive; meaning that it cannot enter such a space at all if it would not have enough MP remaining to reach a space in which it could legally end movement. If a massive figure ends movement in a space containing a figure (any figure), it may not resume moving during that activation.

A large figure is considered to exit every square it occupied and enter every square lands in every time it spends MP.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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That's not quite correct Craig. You pay each cost, but only once. So if one space has difficult terrain and a different space has a hostile figure, you still pay 2 extra movement points (3 total). What you never do is pay for the same thing twice in any single space of movement, so your examples are correct.

As for the other queries...

Difficult Terrain always surrounds spaces, so if it is straddling a line of difficult terrain, one of those spaces must be difficult and you will be paying for it.

And yes, it enters each space it now occupies whenever it moves one space, even if it was occupying those spaces before it moved.

2 generally is the maximum penalty, but a mission rule might add additional complications.
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Craig S.
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Clipper wrote:
That's not quite correct Craig. You pay each cost, but only once. So if one space has difficult terrain and a different space has a hostile figure, you still pay 2 extra movement points (3 total). What you never do is pay for the same thing twice in any single space of movement, so your examples are correct.



Dangit...yeah. I was attempting to paraphrase the rules and it did not come out right. The way I wrote it, you'd only pay one extra move point for entering one square of difficult terrain and a different square containing a hostile figure, which is obviously not correct...
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James Arias
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Is this also how Boba's Jump Jets Command card works?

It just says "place a figure 5 spaces away", but isn't clear to me if that's a "teleport" a la Mobile keyword, or a "pretend to move 5 spaces there". Thematically it would make sense to ignore Blocking and Impassable, but not Walls.

Also could you use that card on a Massive figure?

The situation was a skirmish where the Deployment zone for an AT-ST was inside a big room that it could not get out of.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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It's a placement as per the "Place" section of the RRG.

Full wording of Jump Jets is: "Place your figure in an empty space within 5 spaces."

So you pick a space within 5 spaces (counting via the standard counting spaces rules), take the figure off the space it is in (applying any exit effects) and place it into the chosen space (applying entry effects). It does not move through the intervening spaces.

The Mobile keyword does not provide any sort of teleportation. It allows you to ignore some terrain effects, but if there were others, such as taking damage if you enter a certain space, a Mobile figure will have to take that damage as it moves through that space, as it must move one space at a time. A figure that is being 'placed' on the other side of that space would not.

Edit: And as for Massive figures, the card has the restriction that it may only be used on Small figures. All Massive figures we know about are Large figures, so none would be able to use it. If a Small Massive figure were ever created, it could use the card, though. Having said that, I doubt such a figure will ever be created.

And addressing your final statement, an AT-ST can get out of any room. It may need to rotate to fit through a door or pass through a corner, but there is no map tile I'm aware of that would be impossible to escape.
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James Arias
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Had missed the "Counting Spaces" and "Place" entries in RRG, with your explanation and reading those, it's now clear, thanks!

Edit: also somehow missed the movement examples in RRG Appendix, so didn't realize an AT-ST could "strafe", thought it could only advance or rotate.
 
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