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The Greatest Day: Sword, Juno, and Gold Beaches» Forums » Rules

Subject: Armored Bulldozer rss

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Bob Holmstrom
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Does the armored bulldozer unit have any special rules? RAW indicate it can't clear mines but that seems a little counterintuitive.
 
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Mike Curtis
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Because it is a vehicle and has to be in column in cities, it can't perform engineer actions in cities as the engineer has to be out of column to do so.
 
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Bob Holmstrom
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sfu_fear wrote:
Because it is a vehicle and has to be in column in cities, it can't perform engineer actions in cities as the engineer has to be out of column to do so.


Thanks but it's not what I'm asking. According to the rules it's not an engineer at all. Is that correct?
 
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Mike Curtis
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Which unit are you referring to? Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Rob Davidson
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Bob,

As it's an 'Fld Prk, RE' unit, it's pretty certain that it's an Engineer unit and can do engineer actions if not in column; so, it can clear mines.

Of course, it's only on the reading of the unit designation; an RL would say "it doesn't have the engineer symbol on it". Which is due to the fact that they chose to use an image as it's vehicular in nature.

Basically, if it's not an engineering unit, it's then one of the most useless things in the unit mix. Granted, it's not explicitly called out as one ruleswise (that I have found); but it's the logical point of view in my opinion.
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Bob Holmstrom
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I made that argument but then avre units would be engineers, which makes sense to a point but then they could build entrenchments and lay mines which wouldn't make much sense.

Ultimately we went with the rules as written. Hopefully Adam can clarify.
 
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Rob Davidson
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Strategery21 wrote:
I made that argument but then avre units would be engineers, which makes sense to a point but then they could build entrenchments and lay mines which wouldn't make much sense.

Ultimately we went with the rules as written. Hopefully Adam can clarify.


Bob,

The 79th Division units are called out as 'regular' units in the description on pg 53...of course, here we have to interpret what 'regular' is trying to convey, as I don't see it mentioned off hand anywhere else.

Regular in my mind is a normal combat unit; nothing special about it. Now, this is modified by their abilities shown on the chart regarding beach defenses; and then additionally for the Crab units being called out as mine-clearing units. Ergo, being 'regular' units, they don't have engineer capability in any other regard.

The hang-up is the armored bulldozer definition as being "undefined". I just have to say it would have been best to put an armored engineer symbol on it rather than an image #1; leaving the movement rate in Red9 #2; and finally to put in a note for the completeness that it's an engineer with all the capability of a leg engineer without the mine placement ability (which is illogical...least in WW2).

But for the rest of the actions, I can't think of a more suited unit to:
A. Build roadblocks/remove roadblocks - drop the blades and destroy the road, etc.

B. IP/Entrenching...it's a ginormous shovel! 10 seconds and you have a squad sized scrape in the ground...rinse repeat...

In closing, it's an apparent oversight in the fact that this is a 'new' unit to GTS and it wasn't provided with an exact definition and while I echo the hope for a clarification for this, I feel that to not call it an engineer (with no mine LAYING) capability would be....extremely odd.
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Adam Starkweather
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Hey guys - sorry this has tripped some of you up...

Bulldozers are engineers in all ways. The "RE" designation gives that away - although I thought it was spelled out somewhere. Units of the 79th Division (the funnies) are not however. They have some special abilities as outlined in the rules but are not engineers by the rules.
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Bob Holmstrom
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Thanks Adam and Rob. That's a big help to me as my wily opponent has killed all my engineers on gold with accurate arty fire leaving me only 2 Sherman crabs and the bulldozer to clear mines.

Adam, any chance you could allow avre units to clear mines? They were engineer units who carried explosives and such in the tanks with them. It would be historically correct, help me a great deal, plus piss off my opponent Doug who I think has pestered you with questions. Win/win I think.
 
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Ryan Smith
Germany
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Just to make you mad:
Gold end of the first naval chit, two bunkers gone, three gaps open, everything on zero and only DD losses.
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Adam Starkweather
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Ha, sorry Bob...no can do on changing the rules for your game (although I have always thought an interest side biz would be making rulings for money ...

Sniper fire with arty is a systemic problem in GTS. If you watch my Facebook page, you might find something interesting at the end of next week. Won't help you here but maybe in the future.

Adam
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Bob Holmstrom
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adamant wrote:
Ha, sorry Bob...no can do on changing the rules for your game (although I have always thought an interest side biz would be making rulings for money ...

Sniper fire with arty is a systemic problem in GTS. If you watch my Facebook page, you might find something interesting at the end of next week. Won't help you here but maybe in the future.

Adam


I don't do face book but the arty fire problem is definitely there in TGD. Big stacks on the beaches. Really in the Germans interest to pick off the engineers.

I'll just say I don't like the addition of minefields. I thought they were represented well by entrenchments and roadblocks.
 
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