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Castle Panic: Engines of War» Forums » General

Subject: Please tell me this doesn't end up like the last one rss

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Everett
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Lets face it, Dark Titan was the most overpriced, underwhelming expansion ever released for a game, and that's in a world where Epic Card Game exists. Please tell me this is like Wizard's Tower and actually contains more than 10 tokens and a few cards.
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J M
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what's wrong with epic?
 
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Everett
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RockstarSuperVillain wrote:
what's wrong with epic?


Don't get me wrong, love the game, but 48 cards for $20 bucks is just plain pathetic.
 
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Hal 2000
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How much did it cost you? I got mine for £7 (~$11) which is pretty good for what you get.
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Everett
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Hal 2000 wrote:
How much did it cost you? I got mine for £7 (~$11) which is pretty good for what you get.


Talking about expansions
 
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Hal 2000
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Toenail21 wrote:
Hal 2000 wrote:
How much did it cost you? I got mine for £7 (~$11) which is pretty good for what you get.


Talking about expansions


Yes?
 
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J M
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It cost what it cost. Quality over quantity? Don't like that fact don't buy it? shrug


Also maybe we should move this to the EPIC forums?
 
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Evan Duly
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Toenail21 wrote:
Lets face it, Dark Titan was the most overpriced, underwhelming expansion ever released for a game


Quite the statement. Care to back it up with any evidence at all?

I personally didn't feel ripped off by this expansion but people are free to spend their money how they choose.
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Everett
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EvanDevan wrote:
Toenail21 wrote:
Lets face it, Dark Titan was the most overpriced, underwhelming expansion ever released for a game


Quite the statement. Care to back it up with any evidence at all?

I personally didn't feel ripped off by this expansion but people are free to spend their money how they choose.


Weren't there like 10 monsters in it? And it wasn't really creative design. The Boom Troll and The Titan and his heralds were good design, but the elites were boring, there were like five cards. Should 12 tokens, five cards, and the cavalier cost 18 dollars?
 
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Bradford Lounsberry
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I loved Dark Titan. I hope this one is as good.
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M.C.Crispy
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ralsar wrote:
I loved Dark Titan. I hope this one is as good.
Ditto!
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Mikolaj Witkowski
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Toenail21 wrote:
Lets face it, Dark Titan was the most overpriced, underwhelming expansion ever released for a game, and that's in a world where Epic Card Game exists. Please tell me this is like Wizard's Tower and actually contains more than 10 tokens and a few cards.

Yeah... I hated the Wizard Tower, it threw off the balance completely, making most normal cards useless by comparison. Dark Titan is for me the best expansion for this game, adding a lot variety, difficulty without changing the feel of the game. So I do hope it is like DT and not WT.
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M.C.Crispy
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borsook wrote:
Toenail21 wrote:
Lets face it, Dark Titan was the most overpriced, underwhelming expansion ever released for a game, and that's in a world where Epic Card Game exists. Please tell me this is like Wizard's Tower and actually contains more than 10 tokens and a few cards.

Yeah... I hated the Wizard Tower, it threw off the balance completely, making most normal cards useless by comparison. Dark Titan is for me the best expansion for this game, adding a lot variety, difficulty without changing the feel of the game. So I do hope it is like DT and not WT.
Interesting point of view! I do see where you're coming from with WT - you definitely want to draw from WT deck when you can - but I don't think you can completely rely on them for the win. For me, it's like Base + WT was the "real game" and without WT it was the beginners/kid's version of the game. I like DT as an addition to either version.
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Bradford Lounsberry
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I wasn't much of a fan of Castle Panic outside of an easy family game until Wizard's Tower. That was the expansion that made the game great.
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Everett
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ralsar wrote:
I wasn't much of a fan of Castle Panic outside of an easy family game until Wizard's Tower. That was the expansion that made the game great.



Yes, definitely. Wizard's Tower is just plain awesome. Unlike Dark Titan.
 
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Aaron Rabold
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Toenail21 wrote:
Weren't there like 10 monsters in it? And it wasn't really creative design. The Boom Troll and The Titan and his heralds were good design, but the elites were boring, there were like five cards. Should 12 tokens, five cards, and the cavalier cost 18 dollars?

I don't remember how much I paid for it, but Amazon is showing a retail price of $15 for the expansion. Did your cost include sales tax or something?

Although the overall number of components still pale in comparison to The Wizard's Tower, your numbers for The Dark Titan are a little off. There are 21 total tokens excluding the cavalier marker (17 monsters, the Dark Titan, and the 3 support tokens). Also, I feel that the five different cards for the Dark Titan are worth mentioning as they very game-play similarly to having the different mega bosses. But yes, even including those cards, The Wizard's Tower did include more than three times as many new cards and more than double the number of tokens (plus the new tower and fire tokens). However, the "49" new monster tokens in The Wizard's Tower includes 18 imps and 6 harbinger tokens (the triangle shaped proxies for mega bosses), so it'd probably be more appropriate to call it 25 monster tokens plus imps. When looked at it that way, The Wizard's Tower didn't really have that many more actual game-play tokens than The Dark Titan.

But I would somewhat agree that, although I personally love what The Dark Titan adds and feel it was well worth the money, I was disappointed that it didn't include any new Wizard cards at all. I know they would have been a waste for people who didn't have The Wizard's Tower, but I don't think five or so new cards for that deck would have been too bad and they would encourage people to buy that expansion if they didn't already have it as well as give something fresh for people who already have the wizard deck in their game.

So yes, The Dark Titan did contain far less physical components when compared to The Wizard's Tower which only cost $10 more (retail price $25). However, you do need to take into consideration the cost of putting a game out in general, no matter the size. If you're going to have a combination of hard cardboard tokens and cards, no matter how few there are in the box, it's going to have a minimum amount that the company will have to sell it for in order to make a profit. Again, I don't think $15 is a bad price for what you get from The Dark Titan. And if you start splitting hairs based on what's in the box, the $25 price tag of The Wizard's Tower compared to the $35 price tag for the base game doesn't look too good. Both have the same amount of tokens (although again, how much value can you put in the 18 imps and 6 harbinger tokens?), the base game had 17 more cards, all of the original towers and walls and stands, and it included the actual game board! The base game had a lot of value over The Wizard's Tower for just $10 extra.

Anyway, at risk of writing way, way too much, I would say that with Castle Panic being my favorite board game, I'm really looking forward to this expansion. Based on what I've seen so far, it looks like the new Resource Deck and Engineer mechanic may make it so the Brick and Mortar cards are removed from the Castle Deck whenever you're playing with Engines of War. Maybe Fortify would also be removed, assuming the Engineer's Barricade action is used to place a fortify token. This could be an interesting twist on the game. Removing those cards from the Castle Deck could make it a little more relevant in the face of the Wizard Deck since you wouldn't potentially have as many unneeded cards pop up. There's an article about the expansion in October's Meeple Monthly, but I haven't came across a copy of it yet. Now if it has more or less "bang for the buck" as The Dark Titan or The Wizard's Tower in your eyes? I don't know, but based on the box art that's on here it does look like the same style of box as The Dark Titan, so take that for what you will....
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Aaron Rabold
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So I was hoping to be able to read the Meeple Monthly article after work today, but for some reason my friend who runs a game store didn't have the October issue, just the one for November. However, I did look at the product page for Engines of War and it has the list of components there from which you can gather more information (I couldn't look at the webpage before because it was blocked at work).

Looking at the component list, this is definitely a small expansion like The Dark Titan; in some ways it's smaller than that one. It only has 11 new monster tokens, so nearly half of what The Dark Titan added to the bag. The 16 cards in the Resource Deck are also all that this expansion adds as far as playing cards go, so no new Castle or Wizard cards (sad). There are a few other random little components though like the different things that the Engineer can build, the Engineer himself and his task token, and the Keep which seems to be another new tower for the castle similar to the Wizard's Tower in that expansion. There's also a picture of the Barricade component, so it is definitely something different from Fortify.

So yeah, I'm a little sad that there aren't more cards and more monster tokens, but hopefully it will be quality vs quantity. I'm still really looking forward to seeing how the new mechanics work. I can't really see this being sold for any more than the $15 price tag that The Dark Titan had, but I suppose we'll find out soon!
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Aaron Rabold
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Sorry for the triple-post, but I was able to get a hold of the Meeple Monthly issue that has the Engines of War article in it. The two main takeaways for me are:

-Brick and Mortar removal from Castle Deck confirmed. Those cards will only be in the new Resource Deck when playing with Engines of War and you can no longer freely discard them together to build a wall. They instead must be used in conjunction with the Engineer task to build a wall. However, a single player no longer needs to commit both cards to build the wall. One player can contribute the Brick on his turn, then another player can complete the task by contributing the Mortar when her turn comes up. I'm interested to see if the Arcane Assembly and Mystical Manufacturing castle cards (using Brick or Mortar to rebuild walls or towers) will still work properly with these rules.

-The new Keep does NOT replace one of the towers like the Wizard's Tower does. Instead it gets placed in the center of the castle. The Ballista and Catapult are attached to the Keep when they're completed by the Engineer, pointed in the same direction. The keep can then be rotated to face one color at a time so the weapons can be used in that direction. To fire the Ballista or Catapult, you have to discard two cards which together match the space you are targeting (such as a Blue Swordsman and a Green Knight to target a Blue Knight space is given as an example). The Catapult does three points of damage in that space which can be divided any way you wish among monsters there. The Ballista does two points of damage to a single monster in the space, but then continues to move out doing one point of damage to a single monster in each ring behind it. That means you could potentially do up to 4 points of total damage with two castle cards if you target a Swordsman space (or five if, by the full rules, a ballista bolt travels all the way into the forest).

Although they didn't get into it in the article, I'd assume that the Keep can be destroyed just like any other castle structure if a monster gets into the castle area or if a boulder hits it after the wall and tower in front of it have already been destroyed. Although it's hard to make on on the small picture on the product page, to looks like the Engineer's Task Tile on the flip side has tasks for building the Ballista, Catapult, and the Keep in case it gets destroyed (requiring one of each resource).

I'm also curious how the Ballista and Catapult interact with flying creatures. It makes sense that the Ballista could hit them no matter the ring they're in, but I'm not sure about the Catapult.

Anyway, it all definitely looks interesting. It looks like using the Engineer can give players more to do during turns when the monsters are still mostly under control. I just wish they had a more firm release date than just "November" right now, since it's already November.
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Hector Flores
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They'll be demoing this at BGG CON - I know 'cause I'm helping out.
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oldschoolgamr
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pluvia33 wrote:
I just wish they had a more firm release date than just "November" right now, since it's already November.


Product page (Engines of War) now shows November 23rd as the release date - FYI.

OSG
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Marco Reubzaet
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In reply to the original post: it looks like a few tokens and cards PLUS a load of fiddly bookkeeping and rule changes.

I started reading the rules, then skimmed the rest of them, and finally decided this is not for me as it seems to take away from the lack of management I loved in Castle Panic. Oh well, others will probably enjoy it, so to those who are enthusiastic or hopeful, I extend the sincere wish you will all be pleased with this expansion and enjoy it!
 
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Benny Bosmans
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I sold my copy of Castle Panic when I played with the Wizard's Tower. It made the game less fun for me.

Now I am gonna buy it again as I miss that little game. I will purchase Engines of War in the hope it will be better than that Mage stuff.
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Marco Teti
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Ben_Bos wrote:
I sold my copy of Castle Panic when I played with the Wizard's Tower. It made the game less fun for me.

Now I am gonna buy it again as I miss that little game. I will purchase Engines of War in the hope it will be better than that Mage stuff.


I find it interesting that you didn't like the Wizard's tower Expansion. That expansion made the game for me. Base game was too easy.
 
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