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Condottiere» Forums » General

Subject: Can anyone tell me what year, or what map, the Condotierre board is based on? rss

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Ben Kyo
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I'm just asking because some things, like the placement of Siena, bugged my Italian friends and I'd like to know if there is a historical basis for them.

An example of 1445 Italy (which obviously isn't the right year).


Ender's board photo.

 
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Dave Rubin
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Siena moved?!
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dirubin wrote:
Siena moved?!

Seems unlikely, right? But if it didn't, why is it pictured on the coast in Condotierre?

I'm guessing it's just a lazy approximation and we shouldn't read anything more into it, but it did receive quite a lot of criticism yesterday at the gaming table.
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Dave Rubin
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Maybe it's version dependent. Siena is shown on mine as a coastal *province* (it's a piece of Tuscany, so I'm not sure that's sn issue), but the icon for the city is inland.
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dirubin wrote:
Maybe it's version dependent. Siena is shown on mine as a coastal *province* (it's a piece of Tuscany, so I'm not sure that's sn issue), but the icon for the city is inland.

Right, that's all true as far as it goes, but based on the current locations, the icon for the city "should" be (as far as I know) almost directly south of the icon for Florence. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case in any edition, and Siena, the city, is depicted next to the coast, considerably further west than you would expect, with plenty of room for it to have been further east if accuracy were a design choice.

Anyway, I'm looking for a historical map to do a direct comparison, but none of them seem to match up very well.
 
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I should note that the location of Siena wasn't the only criticism of the map I heard yesterday, but it is the only one I can remember.
 
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You may be taking eurogame maps too seriously. Even wargame maps, intended for simulation, sometimes have cartographic errors. Graphic artists aren't generally experts in that field, and it's easy for things to slip past during production.
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Dave Rubin
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Sphere wrote:
You may be taking eurogame maps too seriously. Even wargame maps, intended for simulation, sometimes have cartographic errors. Graphic artists aren't generally experts in that field, and it's easy for things to slip past during production.


Or it could be intentional, to get the desired relationships between areas with convenient and clear spacing for playing pieces.
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Sphere wrote:
You may be taking eurogame maps too seriously.

I'm not bothered, or at least I wouldn't be bothered if the first reaction to the map by my Italian friends wasn't a discussion of how inaccurate everything is. They liked the card design, at least, with the Eurogame edition having cards very evocative of Italian playing cards.

I know that some games take serious liberties with map design (like Twilight Struggle, for instance). Sometimes that's necessary. However, it would seem that as long as the Condotierre piece fits (over-sizing some city states) and the number of adjacent borders works (some "tweaking" of borders), there would be no reason not to at least make an attempt at accuracy. The game design does not preclude accuracy, is my point.
 
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I doubt whether the board is meant to replicate a specific map. And this time period covers a broad range of history during which borders and boundaries would have changed.

Instead, I look at it as a stylized representation to provide a playable domain. Seventeen regions have a varying degree of connectivity, from Modena and Firenze, then Milano, being good starting points to achieve the winning criteria easily, to Torino and Siena having limited expansion potential out of their respective zones, but some simplistic defence benefits because of that limited adjacency.

If this board detracts the attention away from game-play for your Italian friends, perhaps print off a sixteenth century Italy map and just play on the colour-tinted zones. The red circles for the cities are just handy spots to place your coloured control markers.

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One doesn't need to be an expert of any sort to copy a map. Here's a map for Minnesota with Duluth misspelled and Fargo located in Minnesota. Ridiculous. If it's any consolation to your Italian friends, they aren't being singled out.

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Ouch, that is a tad nasty

There must be a BGG group somewhere for 'Worst. Map. Ever' surely?
 
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TAG-UK wrote:
Ouch, that is a tad nasty

There must be a BGG group somewhere for 'Worst. Map. Ever' surely?

If only there were a way to find such things...

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