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Dust 1947» Forums » General

Subject: Changes to units in v3 rss

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Craig McGill
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I was looking at some of the new Luftwaffe units on the dust website and it seems likely to me that the Rolf Sammt hero would be updated to have the "Airborne" rule that some of the new Luftwaffe have.

http://www.dustgame.com/ufiles/AX400-W5.jpg
http://www.dustgame.com/ufiles/P-AX008B-W9.jpg

If so that would make for a pretty cool synergy. If he gets lucky with his infantry ace skill and airborne roll you could potentially drop him and a luftwaffe anti-air unit and then have sustained fire with 3 fleigerfausts (using their salvo ability, naturally) and 3 FG 47's. That a pretty powerful alpha strike that can hit anywhere on the board!

I'm really interested to see what other changes are in store. Can't wait for those updated cards!
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Tom Shydler
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I suspect that the delay in the cards has something to do with trying to avoid "killer combos" like this one. There are so many units now, attempting to keep each one proportionate to the others (so that there are not any single game-winning units) is nearly impossible.

As many others have said, I simply hope they reduce the number of dice rolled.
 
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Magnus G
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cmcgill wrote:
If so that would make for a pretty cool synergy. If he gets lucky with his infantry ace skill and airborne roll you could potentially drop him and a luftwaffe anti-air unit and then have sustained fire with 3 fleigerfausts (using their salvo ability, naturally) and 3 FG 47's. That a pretty powerful alpha strike that can hit anywhere on the board!
That depends entirely on what other things are changed.

What if Rolf gains Airborne but loses Infantry Ace? What if Fliegerfausts loses the Salvo ability? Or their number of dice is cut in half?

I, for one, hope that he will not have both Airborne and Infantry Ace (even though I'm an Axis player) since every one playing against that combo will just whine about it ("boohoo, Axis always gets the best tuff, snivel snivel").

I guess I'm just fed up with all cry-babies who just can't learn to play better,,, gulp devil
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Craig McGill
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Even without airborne his infantry ace skill is going to be extremely synergistic with fliegerfaust units. It would mean that 66% of the time the unit, along with his fliegerfaust will be able to do a salvo / sustained attack plus reload in the same turn. Or alternatively, salvo / normal attack, reload, move. Pretty awesome combo.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the new cards.

So, lets expand the discussion to the v3 changes in general. Overall I am pretty optimistic about the changes I've seen in v3 so far. I really like what they have done with artillery. It needed a buff, and got one, but it also feels very different from flame weapons now, which is good.

The change to aircraft, making them harder to hit the faster they move was also much needed, I only wonder if it was enough of a buff, since in v2 it was very hard to justify taking any air units. Overall though a step in the right direction for sure.

The rules for height advantage are really cool as well and add a bit more tactical flavor, so I think it is a great change.

The only thing I am reserving judgement on is the change to the LOS rules in Battlefield. It does make for some kind of weird scenarios where the entire unit is visible, except for the unit leader, so you can't fire, etc. On the other hand though it does really streamline LOS checking, and keep the game flowing nicely. This is probably one of the clunkier aspects of miniatures games that use true line of sight in general, so eliminating it, even at the expense of some realism might still be a win overall, will just have to play more to see.
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Lance
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cmcgill wrote:


I'm really interested to see what other changes are in store. Can't wait for those updated cards!


Those updated cards have just started being released today. Sadly on Facebook first and I can't get access to those links to copy here at the moment. This release is for proof-reading by the community.

I haven't followed enough of the discussion to know what issues people are finding now.
 
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Frankysan
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Keep in mind that as with the rule book, these are not quite finished and new versions will probably come later.

I'm going to upload the files and keep them current here:
https://mega.nz/#F!OkEBFRCD!QKWiEaInmxpC2HCBMlSJ4w
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Craig McGill
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Looks like not many major changes. Some units had AP costs adjusted, or lost / gained a special ability, etc. Weapon stat lines seem the same from a quick glance (ie same numbers of dice being rolled).
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Lance
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Facebook has the updated SSU and Axis forces now.
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Craig McGill
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Looks like Panzerprinz & Desert Fox got a bit of a nerf, but a bit lower points cost as well.
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Craig McGill
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That card for the Storch aircraft looks pretty cool though. It is called an "Air Command Plane" and allows reactivation of flier units, plus jams nearby enemy radios.
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Craig McGill
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Well they just posted the Luftwaffe cards, so the question at the top of the thread can be answered now. Rolf Sammt has both airborne and infantry ace. The fliegerfaust stat line has been nerfed a little bit though, I suspect to compensate. It is now a bit less effective against multi-wound infantry. I also noticed though that Sammt no longer has the heavy weapons rule, so I guess he could fire his MG and FF in the same attack now since he is a hero? Still seems like a pretty powerful combo. Some of the old Axis heroes have been toned down a bit though it seems, but lower points cost might balance this out. Still really interested to see how the new cards play.
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Lance
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I see Lara plus Heavy Grenadier Assault Squad is still about 55 dice, or an auto-wipe out of one unit each turn.

I like that they are marking the unit leader but I wonder why they picked the guy who looks like he is about to fall over for the Heavy Grenadier Antiaircraft Squad. I know it is unique but it is a ridiculous pose on that miniature and then to make it the most important in the squad. Luckily mine are already painted with easy recognition of the unit leader.
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Craig McGill
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The one thing that I really dislike so far on the new cards is that they gave everything really generic names. Instead of Fleigerfaust, it is now just called "rocket launcher". All types of heavy weapons are now just called "heavy machine gun", etc. Takes away a lot of the flavor that the game had.
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Magnus G
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cmcgill wrote:
The fliegerfaust stat line has been nerfed a little bit though, I suspect to compensate. It is now a bit less effective against multi-wound infantry.
Not exactly. Every weapon in the entire game now only does a maximum of 1 Damage per Hit on infantry.

cmcgill wrote:
I also noticed though that Sammt no longer has the heavy weapons rule, so I guess he could fire his MG and FF in the same attack now since he is a hero?
Yes, he can fire all his weapons, but not because he is a Hero. All models in the game can now fire all their weapons in every attack, not only Heroes and Vehicles as in V2.
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Marwan Marwan مروان مروان
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I really dislike that. I preferred the limitation on weapons from version 2. Firing all weapon lines feels un-thematic and too-overkill.

MagWiz wrote:
All models in the game can now fire all their weapons in every attack, not only Heroes and Vehicles as in V2.


I played with the new rules recently using the free-form (non-grid) rules, and I hate how the cover rules only apply to the squad leader. I don't like it at all but I will play it like that a few more times before I make up my mind...I have a feeling that I will adopt the AT-43 rules for which figures in a unit can or cannot be hit based on cover and LOS.

Something else that I realized that I don't like is that every infantry unit in all factions are always the same size...I guess you can add one extra figure into SSU infantry squads but that doesn't change much. I hate how all factions seem to be the same, especially now with the generic weapon names too...

 
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Kriegschatten
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marwan_marwan wrote:

I really dislike that. I preferred the limitation on weapons from version 2. Firing all weapon lines feels un-thematic and too-overkill.


I don't mind it because it's a return to how things worked in V1.

However, I agree it's a bit odd that they allow units to fire all of their weapon lines when they seem to be going for more simulationist gameplay in other ways (unit facing, suppression, etc.).
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