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G Wintner
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Hi, I haven't played the game yet but am wondering before buying: while you're playing the game, is it necessary to physically tear anything up or write on anything in order to play? If so, is it only necessary between sessions or even mid-session? Thanks!
 
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Colin Thomas
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"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." - The First Ideal of the Lightweavers (The Stormlight Archive)
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You will be both writing on components and ripping up cards. However, more often, you will be adding stickers to the board (both between sessions and mid-session).
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Moose Detective
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Through September the following is true (spoilers for what you see when you open the retail box only)

Inside the box are 8 smaller boxes that are sealed. You will have to open these boxes. There are also 6 sheets that are "advent calender" style doors that you peel open to reveal new stickers/cards. You will have to open these doors even if you make a workaround for putting stickers in the rulebook.

Tearing up - you can just set the "Destroyed" cards aside. You don't actually need to rip them. The important part is just that they never return.

Writing on - there is very little of this and none of it is mandatory. (But its fun!)

Stickers - This is your problem. There are stickers for everything - the board, the rulebook, the characters, the cards. While you can find ways around some of them (creating your own rulebook, character sheets and reference cards, sleeving play cards and stickering the sleeves, etc) - the ones on the board are pretty important for reminding everyone the current board state.

These stickers do seem to be removeable, but sticking them back on to their original door thing will be more problematic. As they will likely become less sticky with each application.

I would bet that most people buying this would not want a used copy with used stickers even if you did manage to reseal it. As for playing it again yourself, that is most likely feasible if you take care while you play to note where everything came from.

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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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stevelabny wrote:
Writing on - there is very little of this and none of it is mandatory. (But its fun!)

It is mandatory.

To pick some spoiler-free examples, you must name a character when you create them, i.e. the first time you play them. You must name a disease the first time you eradicate it. And if you give a character the PTSD scar, you must write on it the region in which they received it. You also write on each character which games it has been used in, and keep a record of wins and losses, together with your funding level, on the back of the rulebook.

These things do matter, and you need to do them. Or, at least, if you don't then you'd better be making a record of the same information some other way!

(NB: Yes, I know there is some writing you're told to do in the game which turns out not to matter. But it would be a spoiler to say which.)
 
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Moose Detective
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clivej wrote:
stevelabny wrote:
Writing on - there is very little of this and none of it is mandatory. (But its fun!)

It is mandatory.

To pick some spoiler-free examples, you must name a character when you create them, i.e. the first time you play them. You must name a disease the first time you eradicate it. And if you give a character the PTSD scar, you must write on it the region in which they received it. You also write on each character which games it has been used in, and keep a record of wins and losses, together with your funding level, on the back of the rulebook.

These things do matter, and you need to do them. Or, at least, if you don't then you'd better be making a record of the same information some other way!

(NB: Yes, I know there is some writing you're told to do in the game which turns out not to matter. But it would be a spoiler to say which.)


Ok, to clarify I meant you don't have to write ON the components. You can write down all of that on a piece of paper. The disease names don't have to be on the board itself, the character names dont have to be on the character card itself. the record of wins and losses doesnt have to be on the back of the rulebook. Etc.

Also... wait, I was supposed to write down where I got my scars? Uh oh... is that a big deal? (Spoiler reply or PM me)
 
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Ian Collier
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No it isn't, and we didn't do it and went to extraordinary lengths to avoid permanently affecting anything NOT because we have an aversion to it but because for us the game got so fiddly and complex and we started making so many mistakes with rules that we needed to backtrack and sometimes even reply whole games because we made such a hash of it. So we took two basic actions to enable this, and it's very troublesome but we did it anyway.

1. We never ever ripped up or threw away anything but rather put it away in the box.
2. In every place we had to write something we placed a piece of a post-it sticky note over that area and wrote on that instead.
3. THIS IS THE SILLIEST ONE - Every single time we had to place a sticker we stuck it on a tiny piece of the sticky part of a post-it note and then put that where it was supposed to be so that we could easily remove it again if we had to.

Like I said, a load of daft effort reasons but the end result is that we could backtrack if we needed to, we could replay the whole year sort of if we wanted to and we HAVE turned the set into a 'normal' Pandemic set (because quite frankly I don't want to play the Legacy version ever again).
 
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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stevelabny wrote:
Also... wait, I was supposed to write down where I got my scars? Uh oh... is that a big deal? (Spoiler reply or PM me)

Re-read the PTSD scar: it says to write on it where it was received.

Scars which don't say that, you're fine.
 
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Clive Jones

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inuitmyth909 wrote:
No it isn't, and we didn't do it and went to extraordinary lengths to avoid permanently affecting anything
[...]
the game got so fiddly and complex and we started making so many mistakes with rules
[...]
very troublesome but we did it anyway
[...]
(because quite frankly I don't want to play the Legacy version ever again).

Gosh. You didn't mention that when posting about how much you hated Pandemic Legacy.

As people keep saying, yes, by dint of massive effort, you can make Pandemic Legacy resettable, but all the hassle will be a detrimental distraction.

What you disliked wasn't Pandemic Legacy. It was a game similar to Pandemic Legacy, frequently interrupted by messing about with Post-It notes, with things presented less clearly, lacking the experience of permanence and destroying stuff.

Physical representation matters to games!
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In service to the Imperium of Man
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inuitmyth909 wrote:
(because quite frankly I don't want to play the Legacy version ever again).

So maybe it would have been better if you had made permanent changes to the components after all?
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Nigel McNaughton
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inuitmyth909 wrote:
No it isn't, and we didn't do it and went to extraordinary lengths to avoid permanently affecting anything NOT because we have an aversion to it but because for us the game got so fiddly and complex and we started making so many mistakes with rules that we needed to backtrack and sometimes even reply whole games because we made such a hash of it. So we took two basic actions to enable this, and it's very troublesome but we did it anyway.

1. We never ever ripped up or threw away anything but rather put it away in the box.
2. In every place we had to write something we placed a piece of a post-it sticky note over that area and wrote on that instead.
3. THIS IS THE SILLIEST ONE - Every single time we had to place a sticker we stuck it on a tiny piece of the sticky part of a post-it note and then put that where it was supposed to be so that we could easily remove it again if we had to.

Like I said, a load of daft effort reasons but the end result is that we could backtrack if we needed to, we could replay the whole year sort of if we wanted to and we HAVE turned the set into a 'normal' Pandemic set (because quite frankly I don't want to play the Legacy version ever again).


So you added a significant extra layer of book keeping, and then struggled with the 'extraordinary lengths' you went to? Seriously that's a major thing to leave out of your initial post. You ramped up the complexity and fiddlyness significantly.
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Ian Collier
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Quote:
What you disliked wasn't Pandemic Legacy. It was a game similar to Pandemic Legacy, frequently interrupted by messing about with Post-It notes, with things presented less clearly, lacking the experience of permanence and destroying stuff.


Who said it was the efforts that we went to in order to avoid permanently affecting the game that resulted in us hating it finally?? Actually we got really efficient with the post-it note work and prepped things in advance! It had nothing to do with that at all. It was the fact that we found the additional rules fiddly, we struggled with our memory for new rule tweaks and new actions or limitations, we found the experience relentlessly punishing and demoralising... Zero to do with permanent changes or not permanent changes. Ripping up cards and writing on things would have made no difference whatsoever, of that I'm certain.

Also note that I didn't ever say it's a bad game (for the record), I still think that it's a goshdarned masterpiece, just not one that clicked with us at all. But the game we disliked so much very very much WAS Pandemic Legacy.
 
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Ian Collier
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Quote:
So you added a significant extra layer of book keeping, and then struggled with the 'extraordinary lengths' you went to? Seriously that's a major thing to leave out of your initial post. You ramped up the complexity and fiddlyness significantly.


Indeed we did, but it didn't add that much believe it or not and I don't think it affected our final judgement at all. And there's still the fact that the only reason we ended up doing it was because we kept making so many mistakes with the additional rules. What I did leave out was that we didn't start doing this until about June, but we could have done it from the start and so - to get back to the subject of this thread - I don't think it's necessary to permanently change the game by ripping things up, writing on things etc.
 
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I would say destruction and alteration are 100% necessary to gameplay. You can go about not permanently changing your version of the game, but then you aren't playing Pandemic Legacy. You're just playing Pandemic with a campaign mode. And you definitely won't play the game the same way if you know you can just go back and keep trying again. You won't be invested in your strategy as much, you won't be emotionally committed to the story, and the future events won't have the same impact when you can just keep resetting. Having finished the game, I wouldn't have had the same feeling of accomplishment if I hadn't done exactly what the game asked.

It's like playing poker with fake money versus real money. When it's with fake money, who cares! Go all-in every time! But once you start playing with real money, your entire strategy changes because something of value is on the line.

I hope that helps answer you first question.

As for the second, changes can happen anytime. Before, during and after game play.
 
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ruben jannes
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Permanent changes are required. Somewhere I have read about people changing the game so they can replay it (no permanent effects), taking picture of the board at the end of the game, ...
It isn't the same game, you are more concerned with how to add the rules without making it permanent etc.

And as somebody else already said, in a better way then I can, the experience changes and isn't as "serious"
 
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Nothing needs to be torn up - when the game says to 'tear up' or 'destroy' a component it really just means 'permanently remove it from play'. I've been keeping most of those things separate from the rest of the game, just because I want to be able to go back and reread the whole story when we're done.

I would definitely recommend writing on or applying stickers to components wherever it says to, though. It both adds to the game and makes bookkeeping much easier.
 
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Scott Frazer
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ObligatoryReference wrote:
Nothing needs to be torn up - when the game says to 'tear up' or 'destroy' a component it really just means 'permanently remove it from play'. I've been keeping most of those things separate from the rest of the game, just because I want to be able to go back and reread the whole story when we're done.

I would definitely recommend writing on or applying stickers to components wherever it says to, though. It both adds to the game and makes bookkeeping much easier.


And really, everything except the physical destruction of the components can be undone.

If you're playing it for the first time, DEFINITELY put the stickers on, write on stuff. Put the stickers in the rulebook.

Rolling-back stuff seems pretty counter to the entire point of the game: permanence of choice.
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Chester Baker
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I have been eyeing this game for a while now and just about convinced myself to bite the bullet.

From everything I have seen and read, I absolutely believe that the experience was NOT the same for the people who didn't use the permanent changes as prescribed in the rules.

This would not have been the same game at all. May not be for everyone, but the design is there for a reason.
 
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Mark Blasco

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We're in October, and I can say definitively that after the last game we played, this is the best board game I have ever played in my life. We've all gotten excited when tearing up cards, each player got to name and write down a disease in sharpie, and putting stickers all over everything has been a ton of fun.

I say all of this because I don't like regular Pandemic. I'd be fine with never playing it again my whole life. Pandemic Legacy, however, has been amazing, and a lot of that is the constantly changing nature of the game.

If we were to take the time and effort needed to be able to restart the game, I don't think we'd enjoy it nearly as much. It would be possible, but there would certainly be a level of excitement missing.

That being said, it's not very common to be asked to destroy something, and when that happens you could just set it aside. There also isn't a lot of writing, so you could write that info on a separate piece of paper.

There are, however, a bazillion stickers, and trying to avoid using those is going to take away from the game. You'll be putting stickers all over the board, cards, character sheets, etc. The number of them that will go out is kind of staggering.

Play this game the way it was intended. Don't worry about being able to play it again. Think of it like a trip out to a show rather than another board game. Accept that it will be a temporary experience, but one that you will be talking about with your friends for years to come (or at least until season 2 comes out).
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Dianna
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We have not written directly or used stickers on our components. We have a few things which makes this work:

1) a piece of plexiglass over the entire board which is written on with a wet erase marker (a Sharpie would work fine too if you go after it with Alcohol for changes). If I was doing this again, I would add little round Stickers for the City Levels.
2) A print out of the steps for what would otherwise be a modified Rulebook and Player Action cards. This is updated as needed.
3) Sleeved cards and a label maker.
4) A plastic baggie with destroyed things

Oops! Major exception - we have scratched off the month end bonuses.
 
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