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SeaFall» Forums » General

Subject: How long until the first review that states "Seafall: Just not that good a game"? rss

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Pas L
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This seems to be the general feeling that a few reviewers are trying to delicately avoid stating, but surely once it's in the hands of the public someone will blurt it out.

So how many reviews to people think will be posted to BGG before someone leads with it?

Poll
How long until the first review that doesn't mince its words, and just proclaims that Seafall isn't very good?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
1
27.3% 27
2
10.1% 10
3
15.2% 15
4
11.1% 11
5
6.1% 6
5+
30.3% 30
Voters 99
This poll is now closed.   99 answers
Poll created by lamaros
Closes: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:00 am
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Gordon J
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I've sen multiple videos reviews, especially Shut Up & Sit Down, where they are basically calling it not that great of a game. SUSD basically tells you not to get the game. All that I have seen it seems like the story arc is not there or if it is, it takes way too long for it to kick into gear.
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trevor

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...is the answer zero?.....or 1/2?......because the first 2 reviews I saw said pretty much that.
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Pas L
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patton55 wrote:
I've sen multiple videos reviews, especially Shut Up & Sit Down, where they are basically calling it not that great of a game. SUSD basically tells you not to get the game. All that I have seen it seems like the story arc is not there or if it is, it takes way too long for it to kick into gear.


Yes, but they've all been polite about it. I'm talking less of a "hmm, we enjoyed bits but overall aren't sure about it maybe I think probably not" and closer towards a "no".
 
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Ben Martell
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What is interesting to me is that a lot of the reasons people seem to be feeling the game is 'not that great' or 'disappointing' so far seem to be... exactly my expectations of what the game will be.

I can't help but feel that the reason the game is disappointing to some people is that they were expecting the second coming of Pandemic Legacy and in fact it is less accessible.

Specifically:

1) This is a dense 4x game. I don't expect it not to be. In fact, this aspect of the game is something that made me think very hard before buying it, because the idea of trading goods to get gold and spending gold on upgrades isn't that exciting to me and seems likely to speak for more than half of my actions.

2) The game is unlikely to be much of a story arc. The entry you choose for each site is random (to a certain extent). Rob had expressly talked through the concept of it being more or less what you make of it and that you might spend an entire game not exploring at all. The game does seem as though it will 'advance' in the sense that story options might open up later that aren't around to being with, but ultimately the story design is not linear as it is with P:L.

So, I can understand that people would be disappointed if they were expecting a game that is going to be explore/story arc/captains booke heavy.

There are some reviews which aren't falling into this pattern, so I hope to get a little insight from them.
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Pas L
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benmartell wrote:
What is interesting to me is that a lot of the reasons people seem to be feeling the game is 'not that great' or 'disappointing' so far seem to be... exactly my expectations of what the game will be.

I can't help but feel that the reason the game is disappointing to some people is that they were expecting the second coming of Pandemic Legacy and in fact it is less accessible.

Specifically:

1) This is a dense 4x game. I don't expect it not to be. In fact, this aspect of the game is something that made me think very hard before buying it, because the idea of trading goods to get gold and spending gold on upgrades isn't that exciting to me and seems likely to speak for more than half of my actions.

2) The game is unlikely to be much of a story arc. The entry you choose for each site is random (to a certain extent). Rob had expressly talked through the concept of it being more or less what you make of it and that you might spend an entire game not exploring at all. The game does seem as though it will 'advance' in the sense that story options might open up later that aren't around to being with, but ultimately the story design is not linear as it is with P:L.

So, I can understand that people would be disappointed if they were expecting a game that is going to be explore/story arc/captains booke heavy.

There are some reviews which aren't falling into this pattern, so I hope to get a little insight from them.


I think it's actually the opposite. People were expecting this to be a good heavy game with legacy elements. The fact it's not a good heavy game is the flaw.

Those most interested, at least at first, were those who didn't like Risk and Pandemic as much as the usual crowd, not the other way around. This game was getting press and fans long before Pandemic Legacy came out.
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Richard Sampson
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lamaros wrote:
patton55 wrote:
I've sen multiple videos reviews, especially Shut Up & Sit Down, where they are basically calling it not that great of a game. SUSD basically tells you not to get the game. All that I have seen it seems like the story arc is not there or if it is, it takes way too long for it to kick into gear.


Yes, but they've all been polite about it. I'm talking less of a "hmm, we enjoyed bits but overall aren't sure about it maybe I think probably not" and closer towards a "no".
From what I have seen, most reviewers have been saying it's a bit boring so far, but we are not done and maybe it will get better. If they haven't finished, how could they say anything else? I don't think they are trying to be polite so much as be clear that they haven't seen the entire game yet.
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Pas L
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ras2124 wrote:
lamaros wrote:
patton55 wrote:
I've sen multiple videos reviews, especially Shut Up & Sit Down, where they are basically calling it not that great of a game. SUSD basically tells you not to get the game. All that I have seen it seems like the story arc is not there or if it is, it takes way too long for it to kick into gear.


Yes, but they've all been polite about it. I'm talking less of a "hmm, we enjoyed bits but overall aren't sure about it maybe I think probably not" and closer towards a "no".
From what I have seen, most reviewers have been saying it's a bit boring so far, but we are not done and maybe it will get better. If they haven't finished, how could they say anything else? I don't think they are trying to be polite so much as be clear that they haven't seen the entire game yet.


Because if it was any other game they wouldn't be giving the benefit of the doubt and playing through boring game after boring game.
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Richard Sampson
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lamaros wrote:
Because if it was any other game they wouldn't be giving the benefit of the doubt and playing through boring game after boring game.
You really have to put the legacy games in a different context. Risk Legacy out of the box is so-so, but the changes that come greatly improve the gameplay. Similarly Pandemic Legacy for the first month is basically vanilla Pandemic, but again things significantly change. Any other game, you essentially know the game after a few plays, but that is not the case for the legacy style games. I can't say for Seafall, but for the others, the game you start with is VERY different from the game you end with, and judging it by a couple of games is not sufficient. Tom Vasel said in the early reviews that he was not having a good time with Seafall, but he was hoping improvements would come. I don't think this was trying to be polite so much as an honest opinion.

Edit: This is your own comment about Risk Legacy
Quote:
Enjoyable, but not as much as I'd hoped. For all that I don't mind Risk, it's still not a great game.

Yet to open a lot of the compartments though, so maybe they will add some extra experiences to make this memorable.
It sounds almost identical to the early Seafall reviews.
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Steve
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Also, something to factor in is that all the reviews are of the first couple of games. That is part of why they have all been "not very good, but we just started". Tom's second review he is warming to the game. I think it just gets better the closer you get to the end. But that is because it is building a game tutorial style, not starting with a full game, and modifying it. Game number 12-15 are the ones that are how SeaFall is suppose to feel and play, but they will be complicated, so games 1-11 have to build up to it. And that is going to be less exciting. Which in itself is a big flaw for most people, but something that needs to be factored in.

I think that is an interesting factor that the creater talked about, but no one really understood as this is the first game of it's kind.
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Rowdy Scarlett
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Yeah, SUSP certainly didn't recommend it...
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Mark Bigney
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I called it "aggressively mediocre" weeks ago. Does that count?
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Pas L
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rawlinsusmc wrote:
Also, something to factor in is that all the reviews are of the first couple of games. That is part of why they have all been "not very good, but we just started". Tom's second review he is warming to the game. I think it just gets better the closer you get to the end. But that is because it is building a game tutorial style, not starting with a full game, and modifying it. Game number 12-15 are the ones that are how SeaFall is suppose to feel and play, but they will be complicated, so games 1-11 have to build up to it. And that is going to be less exciting. Which in itself is a big flaw for most people, but something that needs to be factored in.

I think that is an interesting factor that the creater talked about, but no one really understood as this is the first game of it's kind.


I'm not really sure what's 'interesting' about half the games being boring?
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Dean Love
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Well Risk is a bad game too but managed to create a fun experience out of it.
 
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Deano2099 wrote:
Well Risk is a bad game too but managed to create a fun experience out of it.


I don't agree. Risk is an ok game, not great. If I found it out and out bad or boring then Risk Legacy would do nothing for me at all.
 
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Michael Weber
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lamaros wrote:
patton55 wrote:
I've sen multiple videos reviews, especially Shut Up & Sit Down, where they are basically calling it not that great of a game. SUSD basically tells you not to get the game. All that I have seen it seems like the story arc is not there or if it is, it takes way too long for it to kick into gear.


Yes, but they've all been polite about it. I'm talking less of a "hmm, we enjoyed bits but overall aren't sure about it maybe I think probably not" and closer towards a "no".


Polite? Well, they recommend to actually buy the game, look at all the components to see how the story develops then reseal them and sell the game. This is not what I consider "polite". Taking SUSD review style into account, this was a devastating review!
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David desJardins
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Mixo wrote:
Polite? Well, they recommend to actually buy the game, look at all the components to see how the story develops then reseal them and sell the game. This is not what I consider "polite".


Whose feelings does it hurt?
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David G. Cox Esq.
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Does any of this really matter?
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Pas L
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da pyrate wrote:
Does any of this really matter?


What do you think?
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Kon Stavrinos
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lamaros wrote:
da pyrate wrote:
Does any of this really matter?


What do you think?


Now you're asking for trouble!
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Thomas Robb
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I have concerns - serious concerns actually

BUT

the gaming group I will playing with doesn't know anything about the hype OR the game

what they play will be what is in front of them the first time
AND

how I present the game to them may make all the difference

IF
they do not like it or want to quit early, then I will know the game is not that good or intriguing - but that conclusion will be based on game play and NOT reviews


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Jon Seidl
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Pas L,
Has there ever been a review that just flat out says "this game sucks"? Reviewers have a difficult job. They don't want to bite the hand that feeds them, but they want to give the viewers honest feedback about the game.

So, each reviewer is left with the conundrum of balancing the two.

Your pole is a little pointless as you will not get the response you are expecting, but you can read between the lines. SUSD said they didn't like the game. Their recommendation was to read the entire game, opening box by box, and imagining that you were playing an incredible game with mystery and wonder... What else do you want than a recommendation that says don't play this game?

-Jon
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David desJardins
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Pulse530 wrote:
Has there ever been a review that just flat out says "this game sucks"? Reviewers have a difficult job. They don't want to bite the hand that feeds them, but they want to give the viewers honest feedback about the game.


Most reviews on BGG are just written by users who buy a game and play it and tell other users how they liked it. There is no "hand that feeds them". A few "professional" reviewers may get free games or other incentives, but it's easy enough to ignore or discount what they write.
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Levi Thornton
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I always feel like people expect reviewers to have a binary opinions. Either it's good or bad. For whatever reason when reviewers say something is "just ok" it just doesn't register for people.

Saying a game is just ok is a valid opinion.

*edited for grammar and clarity
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Jeff M
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SeaFall has one complicating factor right out of the box. It's length.
I can see folks who belong to a reliable, dedicated gaming group made up of people who enjoy long gaming sessions having a different opinion of the game from people who don't have that resource.
Most people don't have that luxury.
A game like SeaFall needs to have strong, interesting narrative and gameplay from the beginning to get and hold the attention of a group of casual gamers, two things that I get the impression the game is lacking. The end game may...or may not...be good, but that is a moot point for most gamers. They will never make it through the slog to get there.

I read one blog review a few days ago from a reviewer who noted at the end of the game, he asked his gaming group if they would recommend buying the game to others. 3 out of the 4 said no.
The one who would recommend it was the reviewer..though even his reviews sounded a bit tentative.
More than many games, SeaFall sounds like a game for a specific audience.





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