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Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower» Forums » General

Subject: So many attacks rss

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Universal Head
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We played this for the first time last night, and while it was the first adaventure, which I suppose is easier than later ones, I found something very hard to get used to. That was the number of attacks each hero got in comparison to the monsters. If a hero is adjacent to a monster you can get 4 attack rolls in a row, but usually the monster - well, basic monsters anyway - just get the one.

Perhaps I'm just used to the usual 'move once attack once' sequence in dungeoncrawlers, but it sems like there was a tsunami of player attacks, and when it finally got to the adversary phase, you might have one or two half-wounded monsters left who'd make a half-hearted stab and that would be it.

Anyone else feel the same?
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Matt Price
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I believe it does get harder, but the general feeling I was getting when these threads were very active right after the game's release was that it was kinda easy...

Bummer. I feel like this game was a missed opportunity...!
 
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Universal Head
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Maybe it's not as good with 4 players. There were just so many attacks before the monsters even got a hit in it seemed a bit ridiculous.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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UniversalHead wrote:
Maybe it's not as good with 4 players. There were just so many attacks before the monsters even got a hit in it seemed a bit ridiculous.


The heroes are supposed to be at the top of their game, and when things are going well, they can really kick ass. You will go through sections where you feel invincible, and this may be more prominent based on the heroes you take.

It gets harder once their are skaven and ogre things running about. Also, for me at least, the destiny dice tend to beat the crap out of me. I will be set up to make a massive attack, roll doubles or triples on the destiny dice, and end up getting teleported off the board for the rest of the turn, or some such nonsense

Hopefully they will also start releasing rules for some tougher monsters to go with the "exotic" enemies.
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guinch Nudrevil
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I totally agree and that's we houseruled an alternate activation system, mixing hero phase and adversaries phase. You may try and really enjoy it :

Rune player first
then one group of monsters
then the next player,
then another group of monsters...
...

Basically, it's the major difference and fun factor between Descent 2nd Edition and Imperial Assault. We tried this variant thinking about that.



By the way the other major modification was to add a save roll to monsters : 6+ for every monsters, except 5+ for ogroid, kairic, Pink Horror and no save for "yellow" horrors.
 
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Jared Voshall
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Just finished the campaign last week, and yeah - it's definitely a very easy run. Standard monsters drop with the most minimal of effort, and even the biggest of the bads can be dropped in one round of dedicated firing from two characters (or even one with the right combo). But, there are some challenges to the game.

The Advanced Adversaries, Full Power Ogroid Thamaturge, and Skaven Assassin all provide fun and balanced encounters, and can present a real threat to the players (the Skaven, in particular, nearly always manages to take out his target, and generally manages to get away). Double Encounters also tend to make for a much tenser encounter, and can present a real threat to the players if they don't get them under control quickly.

Also, any time that the players can't trim down the Adversaries much before they get to act, they're looking at a world of hurt. Any damage drastically affects the effectiveness of the group, and with only 4 health each, it's very easy for a character to drop if too much hate and discontent comes their way. Many Adversaries can deal out a decent amount of damage - Glaives can deal 2 damage per hit and two weapon wielders can make 4 attacks in one go.
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Kevin Outlaw
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Magius wrote:
Glaives can deal 2 damage per hit and two weapon wielders can make 4 attacks in one go.


Yup, the other day my stormcast managed to end up getting attacked by two glaives in a single turn. Got hit twice, failed both of his saves. Went for an early nap.
 
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John Middleton
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Wait....so what you guys are saying is that dice luck in combat has a major effect on how difficult a given encounter is?

No way. Not in GW boardgame.
 
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Jared Voshall
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Not quite. While it can have a pretty major effect, it's much more about managing the number of attacks that you take in a given turn. If you're facing 2-3 Adversaries per player getting out a potential 2-4 damage each, you're going to have a rough few rounds getting everything under control unless you have some pretty spectacular luck on the adversary turn. As such, the adversaries that have enough durability to last more than a round of dedicated attacking (the Skaven Assassin, the full strength Ogroid Thamaturge, and the Advanced Adversaries) tend to be the ones that actually present a challenge and make for a tenser game. Also, if you're relying on the Respites to recover health, you're probably going to be in for a rough ride as well.

Dice can definitely shape the way the game plays out, but you generally don't need to worry about them unless you're already looking at a tough run.
 
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Universal Head
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I always know I'm playing a Games Workshop game when I find myself rolling about 300 D6s per turn.
 
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Ray
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I also played for the first time last night and found it to be a perfectly level challenge for us with three players. But I'm curious as to those that say it's easy : did you play the monsters to their full strength or did you play to weaker moves because it was allowed? We attacked with the monsters as if we were the monster player.

We had an option to hit my character or the dog of another character because of what the instructions said. I chose me because that's what I'd do if I was the evil player/side. I can see many who would let the dog be the meat shield just because it applied.

But great game! Any time that I shout after good or bad dice rolls is a good sign
 
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Jared Voshall
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While there was a little bit of that in my run (mostly in the enemies taking out the Companion hero first rather than the player heroes), we ran the enemies pretty intelligently. The problem (as mentioned in an earlier post) is that, when the game is played intelligently, you'll generally only have 2-3 enemies on the board during the Adversary phase, with those being the weakest of the opponents.

Generally, this means not exploring with your last action die, focusing down the highest damage opponent (as mentioned before, you can generally drop a 9 vigour adversary in one round), and positioning yourself in such a way to minimize the threat that Adversaries present (closing on or breaking LoS against Ranged specialist Adversaries, splitting Area adversaries between chambers, etc). Run the game with intelligent tactics, and it's a pretty straightforward and easy affair - but there are times when it can become challenging, particularly when Adversaries spawn in after the Hero phase, or there are more enemies than the heroes can generally deal with in a given round.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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I have been playing three-hero games, and I suspect it skews slightly harder with the lower player count.

You have access to less skills, and you may lack certain synergies. Things go downhill quite fast if you lose an adventurer at the start of a combat as it significantly reduces the amount of attacks you can put out, and also denies that hero some renown, which means he is a bit behind the curve for the next fight. I have had my hero teleported off the board at the start of the turn before, leaving wounded allies to limp through a round of combat while heavily outnumbered.

I hope GW release some more tougher monsters to up the challenge, and I am thinking of working out some new monster-spawning tables, but I do find it very enjoyable when you get the chance to cleave through a room of monsters in a single turn.
 
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John Middleton
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If you play the game competitively with each hero trying to maximize their scores, rather than cooperatively, the game is much better. I don't see heroes working together combo-style as a theme of this game.

The battle report in White Dwarf showed this.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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DegenerateElite wrote:
If you play the game competitively with each hero trying to maximize their scores, rather than cooperatively, the game is much better. I don't see heroes working together combo-style as a theme of this game.

The battle report in White Dwarf showed this.


That depends on the group, I guess. While I can see some people might enjoy that aspect, we hated the idea of screwing each other over just for a bit of renown or whatever, and we didn't feel it really achieved a whole lot. We play purely co-operatively, and we have a blast.

For the competitiveness to be a real thing, I think it needs more weight... more purpose. A battle royale at the end, or some kind of campaign where you reap greater benefits if you play to your role.

Still, it's all about having fun, and it's nice the game gives you options to play in different ways... But I'm not picking you for my team the next time I go on an epic quest
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John Middleton
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You don't try to screw each other.

You just don't combo play or plot together.

Each player does their own work.


None of the characters in this game would operate like a superhero team.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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DegenerateElite wrote:
You don't try to screw each other.

You just don't combo play or plot together.

Each player does their own work.


None of the characters in this game would operate like a superhero team.


That amounts to the same thing. It just didn't make sense to us not to work together, or chase renown at the expense of doing what was best for the team.
 
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John Middleton
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It makes sense if you have a golden space marine and a Chaos Lord on the same team.


They would never work together. There is no team.


I'm saying that the game seems to be designed to be played in a more competitive fashion. The fiction background supports this.

When you play it like the four heroes are the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, then it is super easy.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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DegenerateElite wrote:
It makes sense if you have a golden space marine and a Chaos Lord on the same team.


They would never work together. There is no team.


I'm saying that the game seems to be designed to be played in a more competitive fashion. The fiction background supports this.

When you play it like the four heroes are the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, then it is super easy.


There is countless fiction where enemies temporarily work together to get out of a bad situation, so I don't have a problem with that. I can easily imagine a reluctant truce in face of a greater enemy. Shits going to get real when those guys make it out of the tower though

In terms of actual gameplay, play with a competition element doesn't make any sense to me, and was less fun because there was no real gain from doing it that way. It makes even less sense if you use a group that are all from the same faction.

But anyway, you obviously enjoy playing it one way. I like playing it the other way. That's up for groups to decide among themselves. I haven't found the game super easy either.
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