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Terra Mystica» Forums » General

Subject: Looking for another TERRA MYSTICA rss

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Jan Kahánek
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Because, this game is no. 1 for me and I've been already playing it since the release date, I am wondering if there exist such a game as TM. I played other games but I am always missing one of the aspects of absolute flawless strategy, which TM comply with...

- near to zero random factor (no dice, hidden cards etc.)
- variability
- reasonable game time
- quite easy for playing, hard to master it
- balanced with not one gamebreaking strategy
- economic/strategy/snowball effect

BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO PLAY TM ONLY UNTIL END OF MY DAYS, DOES SOMEONE KNOWS ANOTHER GAME LIKE TERRA MYSTICA? (MIGHT BE AN OLDER GAME).
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Aernout Casier
Netherlands
Nijmegen
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Scythe might hit the spot.
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
Germany
München
Bavaria
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While Scythe has many things in common with Terra Mystica, the "near to zero random factor" would be a breaking point.

There are 4 hidden card types in the game:
- the available factory cards (sometimes you fight your way into the factory, and there is simply no useful card at all for you)
- the objective cards (important, if one player still has his objectives and only needs one last star...)
- the combat cards.

and finally, most important, the encounter cards. Those are really strategy changing in some cases - especially because you can gain resources or even mechs or buildings with those.


I would recommend instead Endeavor!
It fulfills all requirements!
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Mathias M
Germany
Berlin
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Have you played Puerto Rico?
It is also a great economic Euro Game. It is similar to Terra Mystica in some aspects and different in a few others.

Similarities:
- next to no randomness (the only random thing in Puerto Rico, is a selection of some plantation tiles, which is drawn after each selection.)
- game time is between 90 and 150 min
- rules are a little bit easier than Terra Mystica, but you'll need a few games to understand the game and the basic strategies and many more games to master all of them.
- it is an economic engine buidling game, so snowballing is in there
- strategies, which are effectively a sequence of buildings, are variable. There are maybe around 15 different buidling sequences in 2 main routes, which may lead to a win and all of the are very well balanced.
- You select your strategy in the beginning, and make some slight adjustments along the line.

Differences:
- The starting set-up in Puerto Rico is always the same, but due to the huge amount of different strategies games, always go differently.
- There is much more interaction. In the action selection mechnic in Puerto Rico, it is more important to select the option, that is the least best for your opponents, than to select the best one for yourself.

All in all Puerto Rico is a great game. Nearly no randomness, strategic gameplay, enging building, strong but indirect player interaction and a multitude of strategies.
It is among the top ranked games on BGG for years now and for a reason.
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Jan Kahánek
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Thank you for your tips guys. I've heard about Puerto Rico and Scythe. Never heard about Endeavor. I hope I will have a chance to try all of them in the future. More tips are welcome....
 
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Evil Roy
United Kingdom
Sutton
Surrey
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boardmathias wrote:
- The starting set-up in Puerto Rico is always the same, but due to the huge amount of different strategies games, always go differently.

This wasn't my experience of Puerto Rico. I gave up playing it because games always seemed to follow the same script.


I have to admin that I haven't played it (yet), but from what I've heard Mombasa would be a good match for your criteria.
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Nick Sula
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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I just found Barony because I was looking for a game with all the criteria you listed. I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but it's worth checking out for its lack of randomness, along with its variability, simple rules, short playing time where every action counts, and beautiful wooden components.
(EDITed for clarity)
 
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Grant
United States
Cuyahoga Falls
Ohio
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Maybe take a look at Hansa Teutonica, but only if you typically play with three or more people.
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xorsyst xorsyst
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I'd suggest giving Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar – Tribes & Prophecies a go (I'd have said the base Tzolk'in, but the expansion gives you additional variability in setup.
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birchbeer
United States
Colorado
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Imperial and/or Imperial 2030

I think this game (both versions) meets your criteria in spades!

Very easy to learn, years to master. It's DEEEEEP! Looks like RISK, but it's not. It's economics on steroids.

It's also due to be reprinted VERY soon.

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John Burt
United States
Portland
Oregon
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You might want to research the games designed by Vital Lacerda (CO2, The Gallerist, Kanban, etc), or the Splotter dudes (Food Chain Magnate, Indonesia, etc).
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Kevin D.
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Roads & Boats and Food Chain Magnate are well worth a look. Roads and Boats if you lean towards less interactive games, FCM if you prefer more interaction.
 
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Frank Hamrick
United States
Rocky Mount
North Carolina
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For me, Scythe is the closest. I own Endeavor, Puerto Rico, Hansa Teutonica. Have also played Tzolkin and Imperial Settlers. I quit playing Endeavor, PR, and HT after only 2-3 plays. They just didn't do it for me. T'zolkin and Imperial Settlers I never bought - just not for me. But I've never lost my fascination for TM for all the reasons you give. The only game since Terra Mystica that has come close to holding the fascination for me is Scythe. We're now at 9 plays and I'm still wanting to play it. The fascination of the varying faction powers coupled with the player board variants always make the game feel different. I have yet to truly master the strategies with each combination. And a lot depends on what others do. Yes, there are variable cards which introduce some luck into the game but IMO not enough luck to destroy the game for me.

Scythe:
- 10% random factor (no dice, but some hidden cards that aren't major IMO)
- variability
- reasonable game time
- quite easy to play; difficult to master
- balanced with not one game-breaking strategy
- economic/strategy/engine building

I find Scythe a good alternative to TM.
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James Wolfpacker
United States
North Carolina
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Here's a suggestion, you can play Catan (with or without scenarios/expansions) with the following modifications:

1) Pre-roll 100 dice for 4p (or 25 production turns per player). No ordinary game will take this many rolls, but if it does then the game ends there. Each player has one more turn after this to win or convert what they can to vps.
2) Reveal the order of all hidden card decks before the start of the game (development or progress cards). In the case of progress cards with cities and knights any played card goes to the back of the card line.
3) If no production on a "roll" get 1 gold, 2 gold = 1 resource, you can only use 4 gold on your turn.
4) All resource and development/progress cards are not hidden from others.
5) Allowing the trading of resources or gold is up to your own preference.

This makes Catan have 0 hidden information with the exception of where a player will place the robber. However, since you know the order of the dev cards you can have a knight in hand or activated (with Cities and Knights) before a robber is placed to counter this.
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Nicola Bocchetta
Italy
Milano
MI
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xorsyst_uk wrote:
I'd suggest giving Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar – Tribes & Prophecies a go (I'd have said the base Tzolk'in, but the expansion gives you additional variability in setup.


Also because, without the expansion, it seems like there's a winning strategy, if you can make it happen.

I say this not because I play much, but because on BGO a lot of people are complaining.
 
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Nicola Bocchetta
Italy
Milano
MI
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kahy wrote:

- reasonable game time


What is "reasonable" to you?
 
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Robert
Germany
Bocholt
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Games which meet your criteria and which I like:
- Food Chain Magnate
- The Gallerist (limited randomness when drawing meeples and art)

Games mentioned which I don't think are good candidates:
- Scythe (significant randomness)
- Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar (sloooow)
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Tilou
France
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OP already knows and likes Tzolk'in and expansion.
 
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Jesse Green
United States
New York
New York
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+1 Food Chain Magnate
 
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Nicola Bocchetta
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Milano
MI
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DocCool wrote:
Games which meet your criteria and which I like:
- Food Chain Magnate
- The Gallerist (limited randomness when drawing meeples and art)

Games mentioned which I don't think are good candidates:
- Scythe (significant randomness)
- Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar (sloooow)


Food Chain Magnate doesn't respect contrain "reasonable game time".
 
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Thomas Dunagan
United States
Clermont
GA
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I would recommend Nippon and maybe Mombasa

Very little randomness if any in these games. Definitely check out the former. However not a ton a variability in these games but the possibilities in paths of strategy are immense.

But maybe the best recommendation based on your criteria - Le Havre
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bob lawblaw
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I'll second Nippon as a really good "second TM".
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Dhrun
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If Le Havre gets mentioned (rightfully), we should also point out Rosenberg's masterpiece, Agricola.

It fulfils your criteria, IMHO surpasses all other games regarding
> - variability,
if you mix in the numerous extensions, by far.

After learning the rules and maybe 10-30 games, you will want to move on to include at least Farmers of the Moor, that extension significantly improves a fantastic game.

There is one issue regarding
> - near to zero random factor (no dice, hidden cards etc.)
You will want to draft the cards, chosing any variety that suits you (and your player count). If you abolutely dislike hidden information, chose a kind of Rochester draft, otherwise like my people, use a booster draft.

BTW Agricola plays nicely at all player counts from 2 to 5.

Note that though there is pretty much interaction on a general board, your development is on your personal board only, similar to a lot of games mentioned here but unlike TM.
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Dhrun
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I also recommend Puerto Rico for the reasons mentioned by boardmathias above.
On its own it is not as variable as TM (but see below), anyway it very easy to learn, still somewhat deep, elegant and VERY deterministc. As mentioned above there is only a very small variable element at startup and no randomness or hidden info throughout the game.

As Evil Roy noted it might start to feel a little scripted after some time though, if you play it a lot with the same player count.

But for variety note first, it plays quite differently while smooth at different player counts, including 2 players, though you might have to look up rules for that online.

More importantly, there are two expansions - if you mix these in at startup, the variability increases greatly.

That said, the game is much fun but a bit less deep than TM and it plays quicker, I guess you might need 60% of the time you need for TM.
 
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Robert
Germany
Bocholt
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Faso74it wrote:
DocCool wrote:
Games which meet your criteria and which I like:
- Food Chain Magnate
- The Gallerist (limited randomness when drawing meeples and art)

Games mentioned which I don't think are good candidates:
- Scythe (significant randomness)
- Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar (sloooow)


Food Chain Magnate doesn't respect contrain "reasonable game time".
Then we made different experiences: Our 4p FCM games were all done in less than 3 hours, which is what a 4p game of TM takes too.

I second Nippon as a good game for the given criteria - the randomness of meeples drawing is (at least partially) covered by seeing the draw ahead of time.

tilouboy wrote:
OP already knows and likes Tzolk'in and expansion.
You must have secret information which is not stated in this thread.
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