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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hamstrung and Fighting Arts rss

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Scott Kellner
United States
California
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The severe leg injury 'Hamstrung' makes it so that a survivor is no longer able to use fighting arts or abilities. Does this mean that survivor would lose the benefit of passive arts like 'Last Man Standing'? I wasn't sure because, while it is a fighting art and it makes sense that he would lose the benefit, it is also a passive bonus as opposed to something that the survivor would need to use. I know this is kind of rules-lawyer-y but I wanted to know what others thought.
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Steve Trewartha
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I would say yeah you can't use them. It says no fighting arts so no fighting arts. Much harder to be the last man standing and stay strong when you are hamstrung.
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Nick Wirtz
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Y'know what? I was going to say it means you no longer benefit, but, I looked at the tables, and think you have a reasonable argument there-- no longer activating +2 strength weapons doesn't mean you can't have them for benefits (like a beacon shield will still give armor); same goes for 2x handed weapons (at least a couple have passive effects).

So, there's definitely precedent for passive abilities not being stopped, and the question is "use," which I think definitely implies action, or it should be "benefit from" or something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the intention, but definitely think, as written, that could easily be right.
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Scott Kellner
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That was essentially the argument made in favor of keeping the fighting art. The word "use" could be implied as prohibiting any fighting arts that gave you additional abilities or special actions; so no using the insanity buff power from Orator of Death. However, you don't "use" Last Man Standing, it's something you have. And that's actually the exact line of thought I had; if it wanted to clearly deliminate the difference, hamstrung should say "you man not gain the benefit of".

This happened for us during a fight with the King's Man. We decided as a group that Last Man Standing shouldn't apply but mostly because we didn't want to draw out the encounter any longer since we had no chance of winning. However, I'm still curious about other people's interpretations.
 
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ArtSchool
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KD:M rules are to be construed literally, even if they sometimes do not make much sense thematically (remember that you can still perform a fist & teeth attack while having dismembered arms and the jaw severe injury!). Of course you can always adapt them to your personal understanding or preferences, for sometimes it's hard to strictly abide with what the letter says...

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Nick Wirtz
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I have no idea what you're saying, Pepper-- you seem to be interpreting something as the obvious answer, but I (and the OP) think it's easy to interpret "use" as...

"benefit from"
or
"actively use"

I think the latter is a little closer, but I don't think there's an obvious answer.
 
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David Ainsworth
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I'd tend not to overthink it. It says no fighting arts, so for me that would be no fighting arts period. Using a fighting art, even if it provides what we think of as a passive bonus, is still using that fighting art. To me anyway.
 
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Drew Olds
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OREM
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It wouldn't counteract things that have already happened- so if you have some strength tokens from red fist, you'll still benefit from those, as the fighting art activated at the start of the fight (when you weren't hamstrung).

However, they would count as not existing going forward, so you would not be able to give an orator of death speech, or gain a skull resource from merciless.

"Use" in the game is not a term that means "spend activation." So you won't benefit from any of the various ways you can use fighting arts.
 
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