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Subject: Tiny Epic Games rss

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M M
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How many does the world need? They just launched another KS expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

They now have
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Defenders
Tiny Epic Galaxies
Tiny Epic Western
Tiny Epic Quest

Keep milking that cash cow?
 
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maf man
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Mat628 wrote:
...expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

so is it now called moderately small epic kingdoms?
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Michael McElroy

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Not sure why, but the use of kickstarter for an established product just feels wrong to me. I have no problem with milking a cash cow, but the method of the milking feels inappropriate.
Shouldn't they move on to separating the cream already?
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f h
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Actually today's KS is expanding Tiny Epic Galaxies, not Kingdoms. Anyway wrt the line of games, the cash cow and use of KS... for the most part it has been a fun line of games so why not keep expanding it? They are also certainly not the only company that is using KS as a "preorder" system and there's been many discussions about that in other threads. I guess I just don't understand all the negativity towards a company expanding their line of games in an proven manner???
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Mark Smith

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When you see the list there are quite a few now and if they are falling off the shelves why not milk it?
But to be a truly awesome cash cow game for muppets they should have done separate heroes or races like the way descent and Star Wars do things.
Wave after wave n wave your wonga a away.

Ok so I got some descent expansions and slave 1 with the millennium falcon accessory but drew the line on lieutenants , So more of a puppet than a muppet.
 
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Ben T

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fh13 wrote:
They are also certainly not the only company that is using KS as a "preorder" system and there's been many discussions about that in other threads. I guess I just don't understand all the negativity towards a company expanding their line of games in an proven manner???


They're not even in the same league, size-wise, as some of the companies that people could have pretty legitimate complaints about their use of KS (like Mantic using it for dreadball, for example...)
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Mutton Chops
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Mat628 wrote:
How many does the world need? They just launched another KS expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

They now have
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Defenders
Tiny Epic Galaxies
Tiny Epic Western
Tiny Epic Quest

Keep milking that cash cow?


If the games are different in rules and theme (and they are), and the only thing connecting them is the branding and the box size, how is it "milking [a] cash cow" any more than any other publisher who publishes a number of different games (and I am well aware that this latest and "Heroes' Call" are expansions, but they are in the minority in the TEx line)?
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Dave B.
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I like small games that I can play solo (great for travel), so keep 'em coming, I say.
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Garth Tams
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Mat628 wrote:
How many does the world need? They just launched another KS expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

They now have
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Defenders
Tiny Epic Galaxies
Tiny Epic Western
Tiny Epic Quest

Keep milking that cash cow?


I hate them. I also hate people who act offended that a company is making money legitimately. There is no code that says you can have 3 kickstarter games and then you are on your own. The system is proven, and it mitigates risk while maximizing efficiency on production. Little remaining stock, happy customers.
So to answer your question with a question; whats the problem?
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John Breckenridge
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Today's kickstarter was for Tiny Epic Galaxies: Beyond the Black, not an expansion to TEK.
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Keith B
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Mat628 wrote:
How many does the world need? They just launched another KS expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

They now have
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Defenders
Tiny Epic Galaxies
Tiny Epic Western
Tiny Epic Quest

Keep milking that cash cow?


Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't you if you owned the company and had a hot seller?
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Pauly Paul
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Mat628 wrote:
How many does the world need? They just launched another KS expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

They now have
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Defenders
Tiny Epic Galaxies
Tiny Epic Western
Tiny Epic Quest

Keep milking that cash cow?




---
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms


One game
---

Tiny Epic Defenders

Different game
---

Tiny Epic Galaxies

Different game
---

Tiny Epic Western

Different game
---

Tiny Epic Quest

Different game
---

This is like saying Stronghold Games is milking it because they have released;

Animals on Board
Bear Valley
The Dragon and Flagon
Fields of Green
Great Western Trail
Jorvik
Stellar Conflict
etc etc for 10 pages

Man how many do we need? When are they going to stop milking that cash cow already? shake

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Chris L
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thelocalbaptist wrote:
Not sure why, but the use of kickstarter for an established product just feels wrong to me. I have no problem with milking a cash cow, but the method of the milking feels inappropriate.
Shouldn't they move on to separating the cream already?


These guys:
- actually update backers on a regular basis with production details
- answer questions regularly on BGG
- make modifications based on backer input
- actually deliver their products close to on time (they just announced that TEW is on schedule and is beginning shipping next week!!!!)
- games are generally fun to play (except TED... that one bombed)

I say let's have more kickstarters like these!
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Neil McIntyre
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Mat628 wrote:
How many does the world need? They just launched another KS expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

They now have
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Defenders
Tiny Epic Galaxies
Tiny Epic Western
Tiny Epic Quest

Keep milking that cash cow?


They're all different games dude. This is no Munchkin!
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Daniel C
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Today Kickstarter = PreOrder
Yesterday Kickstarter was a source to try to fund up and coming developers.
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ackmondual
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thelocalbaptist wrote:
Not sure why, but the use of kickstarter for an established product just feels wrong to me. I have no problem with milking a cash cow, but the method of the milking feels inappropriate.
Shouldn't they move on to separating the cream already?


Well, last I heard, there was NEVER any rule on kick starter that established companies weren't allowed to use their services (nevermind how one would define and enforce this). It remains open to all who follow the rules posted.

As far as morals and ethics go, keep in mind that people saying stuff like "established products shouldn't using ks" was also a construct that the BGG community just came up with.

Mat628 wrote:
How many does the world need? They just launched another KS expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

They now have
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Defenders
Tiny Epic Galaxies
Tiny Epic Western
Tiny Epic Quest

Keep milking that cash cow?

As for milking that cash cow, this is hardly limited to the bg-ing industry, nor the hobby/designer game board gaming industry, but in the context of our hobby, finding a cash cow is a holy grail for them. We'd like to think that all the designers are all creative/innovative all of the time, but the truth is, creating new IP and concepts is VERY tiresome, time consuming, costly, and may just fizzle. Sure, many already took a financial risk designing bg in the 1st place, but there's still some level of "success" they'd like to achieve regardless. Besides, it's not like it wasn't a lot of work and effort to get to the cash cow in the first place.
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Pauly Paul
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ackmondual wrote:
As for milking that cash cow, this is hardly limited to the bg-ing industry, nor the hobby/designer game board gaming industry, but in the context of our hobby, finding a cash cow is a holy grail for them. We'd like to think that all the designers are all creative/innovative all of the time, but the truth is, creating new IP and concepts is VERY tiresome, time consuming, costly, and may just fizzle. Sure, many already took a financial risk designing bg in the 1st place, but there's still some level of "success" they'd like to achieve regardless. Besides, it's not like it wasn't a lot of work and effort to get to the cash cow in the first place.


Perhaps in other situations however the Tiny Epic games are different and new from one another. This isn't a situation like Pandemic where you have; Pandemic and Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu and Pandemic Iberia and Pandemic Legacy: Season 1. This could be argued as an accurate use of the term "milking it" (I like Pandemic so I wouldn't be bothered by that accusation).

However the only thing the Tiny Epic games have in common is the branding "Tiny Epic". To say the are all variations of the exact same game is just to show one is ignorant to that fact. And I mean come on, we're at BGG it's not like this information is hard to come by either.

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f h
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ZeWildStar wrote:
Today Kickstarter = PreOrder
Yesterday Kickstarter was a source to try to fund up and coming developers.


There's still a good number of those up and coming developers out there trying to get a game funded that otherwise wouldn't be... Let's be honest though, the majority of those games shouldn't be funded anyway and those are the projects people will generally end up complaining about the most (lack of communication, product being late, game being lame, etc).
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David E
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Mat628 wrote:
How many does the world need? They just launched another KS expanding Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

They now have
Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Kingdoms Heroes Call
Ultra-Tiny Epic Kingdoms
Tiny Epic Defenders
Tiny Epic Galaxies
Tiny Epic Western
Tiny Epic Quest

Keep milking that cash cow?



Did Scott Almes run over your dog or something?
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ackmondual
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venrondua wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
As for milking that cash cow, this is hardly limited to the bg-ing industry, nor the hobby/designer game board gaming industry, but in the context of our hobby, finding a cash cow is a holy grail for them. We'd like to think that all the designers are all creative/innovative all of the time, but the truth is, creating new IP and concepts is VERY tiresome, time consuming, costly, and may just fizzle. Sure, many already took a financial risk designing bg in the 1st place, but there's still some level of "success" they'd like to achieve regardless. Besides, it's not like it wasn't a lot of work and effort to get to the cash cow in the first place.


Perhaps in other situations however the Tiny Epic games are different and new from one another. This isn't a situation like Pandemic where you have; Pandemic and Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu and Pandemic Iberia and Pandemic Legacy: Season 1. This could be argued as an accurate use of the term "milking it" (I like Pandemic so I wouldn't be bothered by that accusation).

However the only thing the Tiny Epic games have in common is the branding "Tiny Epic". To say the are all variations of the exact same game is just to show one is ignorant to that fact. And I mean come on, we're at BGG it's not like this information is hard to come by either.

I haven't played Pandemic Legacy, but TBF even though it uses Pandemic as it's foundation/base, it looks like there was a lot of work put into it.
 
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Pauly Paul
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ackmondual wrote:
venrondua wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
As for milking that cash cow, this is hardly limited to the bg-ing industry, nor the hobby/designer game board gaming industry, but in the context of our hobby, finding a cash cow is a holy grail for them. We'd like to think that all the designers are all creative/innovative all of the time, but the truth is, creating new IP and concepts is VERY tiresome, time consuming, costly, and may just fizzle. Sure, many already took a financial risk designing bg in the 1st place, but there's still some level of "success" they'd like to achieve regardless. Besides, it's not like it wasn't a lot of work and effort to get to the cash cow in the first place.


Perhaps in other situations however the Tiny Epic games are different and new from one another. This isn't a situation like Pandemic where you have; Pandemic and Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu and Pandemic Iberia and Pandemic Legacy: Season 1. This could be argued as an accurate use of the term "milking it" (I like Pandemic so I wouldn't be bothered by that accusation).

However the only thing the Tiny Epic games have in common is the branding "Tiny Epic". To say the are all variations of the exact same game is just to show one is ignorant to that fact. And I mean come on, we're at BGG it's not like this information is hard to come by either.

I haven't played Pandemic Legacy, but TBF even though it uses Pandemic as it's foundation/base, it looks like there was a lot of work put into it.


That's missing the point of my reply.
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Matt Drake
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OK, I'm completely off-topic because I haven't played any of the Epic Tiny games, and I'm not even really planning to discuss it, exactly.

I may not have the most popular opinion here, but I LOVE established companies funding through Kickstarter. Mantic and CMON are the two most obvious culprits, but there are several others.

I got Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower last weekend, and as I sat assembling the minis and reading the rules, I found myself thinking, 'I wish GW had Kickstarted this.'

Here's the thing. Running a Kickstarter for a new game, especially one with a lot of plastic, practically guarantees a butt-ton of add-ons and stretch goal freebies. I backed The Others and got all 7 Sins (or will, if the damned thing ever shows up). If they had released traditionally, I would have just received the two Sins that come with the game.

When I backed Dungeon Saga, I got all the expansions and an enormous box full of free minis. I also dumped a couple hundred extra bucks to get a whole lot more - now I can dungeon crawl for the next three years and never have to play the same adventure twice.

I backed Super Dungeon Explore, and got a barrel full of free minis, and with the new one, I'll get another barrel full.

I love Kickstarting games from existing companies. You know they will deliver, and all those freebies have caused me to back games I would not have bought at retail.

I also back new games, but not as often. A proven track record makes me want to give you my money more than seeing 'First Created. Zero Backed.'

If FFG Kickstarts a big-box plastic extravaganza, they can count on hundreds of my dollars. If GW decides to crowd fund a bunch of expansions for Warhammer Quest, they'll get a bunch of my money. Even Mantic, with their reputation for disappointment, will get my money if they make something I want to play (I don't play anything that requires a tape measure). In fact, a Kickstarter with loads of free stretch goals is more likely to get my money than a discount at Miniature Market or CoolStuff.

I say bring it on. More Kickstarters from established companies, please!
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Keith B
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VixenTorGames wrote:
OK, I'm completely off-topic because I haven't played any of the Epic Tiny games, and I'm not even really planning to discuss it, exactly.

I may not have the most popular opinion here, but I LOVE established companies funding through Kickstarter. Mantic and CMON are the two most obvious culprits, but there are several others.

I got Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower last weekend, and as I sat assembling the minis and reading the rules, I found myself thinking, 'I wish GW had Kickstarted this.'

Here's the thing. Running a Kickstarter for a new game, especially one with a lot of plastic, practically guarantees a butt-ton of add-ons and stretch goal freebies. I backed The Others and got all 7 Sins (or will, if the damned thing ever shows up). If they had released traditionally, I would have just received the two Sins that come with the game.

When I backed Dungeon Saga, I got all the expansions and an enormous box full of free minis. I also dumped a couple hundred extra bucks to get a whole lot more - now I can dungeon crawl for the next three years and never have to play the same adventure twice.

I backed Super Dungeon Explore, and got a barrel full of free minis, and with the new one, I'll get another barrel full.

I love Kickstarting games from existing companies. You know they will deliver, and all those freebies have caused me to back games I would not have bought at retail.

I also back new games, but not as often. A proven track record makes me want to give you my money more than seeing 'First Created. Zero Backed.'

If FFG Kickstarts a big-box plastic extravaganza, they can count on hundreds of my dollars. If GW decides to crowd fund a bunch of expansions for Warhammer Quest, they'll get a bunch of my money. Even Mantic, with their reputation for disappointment, will get my money if they make something I want to play (I don't play anything that requires a tape measure). In fact, a Kickstarter with loads of free stretch goals is more likely to get my money than a discount at Miniature Market or CoolStuff.

I say bring it on. More Kickstarters from established companies, please!


I agree on all points.

Interestingly, I know several in my local game group that won't KS a game because of too many bad experiences. Not from established companies, but from new companies that used KS for the purpose many believe it was intended for.

KS is a marketing tool - nothing more, nothing less.
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ackmondual
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venrondua wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
venrondua wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
As for milking that cash cow, this is hardly limited to the bg-ing industry, nor the hobby/designer game board gaming industry, but in the context of our hobby, finding a cash cow is a holy grail for them. We'd like to think that all the designers are all creative/innovative all of the time, but the truth is, creating new IP and concepts is VERY tiresome, time consuming, costly, and may just fizzle. Sure, many already took a financial risk designing bg in the 1st place, but there's still some level of "success" they'd like to achieve regardless. Besides, it's not like it wasn't a lot of work and effort to get to the cash cow in the first place.


Perhaps in other situations however the Tiny Epic games are different and new from one another. This isn't a situation like Pandemic where you have; Pandemic and Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu and Pandemic Iberia and Pandemic Legacy: Season 1. This could be argued as an accurate use of the term "milking it" (I like Pandemic so I wouldn't be bothered by that accusation).

However the only thing the Tiny Epic games have in common is the branding "Tiny Epic". To say the are all variations of the exact same game is just to show one is ignorant to that fact. And I mean come on, we're at BGG it's not like this information is hard to come by either.

I haven't played Pandemic Legacy, but TBF even though it uses Pandemic as it's foundation/base, it looks like there was a lot of work put into it.


That's missing the point of my reply.
Which was? (being serious here, as I obviously did miss the point)
 
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Mikolaj Witkowski
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VixenTorGames wrote:
OK, I'm completely off-topic because I haven't played any of the Epic Tiny games, and I'm not even really planning to discuss it, exactly.

I may not have the most popular opinion here, but I LOVE established companies funding through Kickstarter. Mantic and CMON are the two most obvious culprits, but there are several others.

I got Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower last weekend, and as I sat assembling the minis and reading the rules, I found myself thinking, 'I wish GW had Kickstarted this.'

Here's the thing. Running a Kickstarter for a new game, especially one with a lot of plastic, practically guarantees a butt-ton of add-ons and stretch goal freebies. I backed The Others and got all 7 Sins (or will, if the damned thing ever shows up). If they had released traditionally, I would have just received the two Sins that come with the game.

When I backed Dungeon Saga, I got all the expansions and an enormous box full of free minis. I also dumped a couple hundred extra bucks to get a whole lot more - now I can dungeon crawl for the next three years and never have to play the same adventure twice.

I backed Super Dungeon Explore, and got a barrel full of free minis, and with the new one, I'll get another barrel full.

I love Kickstarting games from existing companies. You know they will deliver, and all those freebies have caused me to back games I would not have bought at retail.

I also back new games, but not as often. A proven track record makes me want to give you my money more than seeing 'First Created. Zero Backed.'

If FFG Kickstarts a big-box plastic extravaganza, they can count on hundreds of my dollars. If GW decides to crowd fund a bunch of expansions for Warhammer Quest, they'll get a bunch of my money. Even Mantic, with their reputation for disappointment, will get my money if they make something I want to play (I don't play anything that requires a tape measure). In fact, a Kickstarter with loads of free stretch goals is more likely to get my money than a discount at Miniature Market or CoolStuff.

I say bring it on. More Kickstarters from established companies, please!

Firstly Silver Tower actually had preorder bonuses, four more heroes and fancy cards.

Secondly that's a very one-sided view on kickstarter. If you live in Europe you are almost of the loop due to horrendous shipping. Plus you have to get it all before the game is out, if you don't have the money at the time or the game is rubbish (even an established company can do that) you are dead in the water. Traditional publishing may be less exciting but it is safer (and you can get expansions too after all) Kickstarter is great but for the publisher and not for the consumer.
 
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